Jimmy: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. This is Unpacking Peanuts. We're about halfway through 1988 right now, a little less than halfway, and I'm excited to be here. And who am I? Why, I'm your host for these proceedings. My name's Jimmy Gownley. I'm also a cartoonist who did things like Amelia Rules. Seven good reasons not to grow up, the Dumbest Idea ever, and I'm serializing my new work at gvillecomics dot substack.com.
Joining me, as always, are my pals, co hosts, and fellow cartoonists. He's a playwright and a composer, both for the band complicated people, as well as for this very podcast. He's the original editor of Amelia Rules, the co creator of the original comic Book Price Guide, and the creator of such great strips as strange attractors, a gathering of spells, and tangled River-- It’s Michael Cohen.
Michael: Say hey.
Jimmy: And he's the executive producer and writer of mystery science theater 3000, a former vice president of Archie comics, and the creator of the Instagram sensation sweetest beasts. It's Harold Buchholz.
Harold: Hello.
Jimmy: Well, guys, it's nice to be back here, on another Tuesday, my favorite, day of the week, you know, attacking another batch of Peanuts strips. Liz, how are you doing?
Liz: I'm doing pretty good.
Jimmy: I never talked to you at the beginning. You are? Yeah.
Liz: Yeah. Tuesday is kind of my favorite day as well.
Jimmy: Awesome. All right, well, we hope you guys out there, at least rank it in your top seven days of the week. Okay, so, guys, we had a huge preamble last time. I think we just get right to the strips. So what do you guys say?
Michael: Let's do it.
Harold: Sure.
Jimmy: Okay. And if you characters out there want to follow along, you should know the drill by now. You go over to gocomics.com, You could type in the dates as I read them, or if you want to be a good student, be teacher's pet, you go over to unpackingPeanutss.com, sign up for the great Peanuts reread. That will get you an email once a month that will give you a list of the strips we'll be discussing in every episode, so you could read ahead. Alright, with all that said, let's go to the strips
May 10. It's a single panel daily. Charlie Brown is sitting on the couch with his sister and he seems to be reading Sally a book, and Charlie Brown reads the book which says, but David won the fight when he hit Goliath in the head with a stone. To which Sally replies, what did Goliath's mom say about that?
Harold: I don't think she was very happy.
Jimmy: No, it probably wasn't a great day in the Goliath household. I, always remembered this one. again, this is like the strip, the area of the strip that is far from my favorite and far from the one I've read the most. But this one really, really struck with me. And the other thing, I think that's cool about this, I was thinking about, we were picking a ton of strips last episode and saying it seemed like he was in a real zone. He was kind of firing on all cylinders again. And part of it, to me, honestly, seems like that Alan Moore thing where it's like you change one thing, don't panic and change a million things. And all he changed is, you know what? I'm going to. I'm going to change the amount of panels.
Harold: Yeah, we've talked about this. So, Jimmy and Michael, how does that aesthetically change the experience of this trip for you guys? Does it? Does it? Or can you palpably tell that something feels different in the Peanuts world?
Michael: Well, something did feel different.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: I got to disagree with Jimmy's thesis there because, yeah, I was really excited that the, the first four months of 1988 seemed to be, like, was really hitting. And I thought it was the, you know, the best since 1970. But the ones that I liked best in the first two months, actually came before he started shifting to fewer panels.
Harold: It's interesting. Yeah.
Michael: So I don't know if they're related. I picked a lot of strips from January, February, and the first time he diverged from a four panel format on the dailies was March 1. So, I mean, he had two months of really good material before he did that. So I don't know if that affected it. And in reference to the one we just read, I'm not a big fan of these one panel strips.
Jimmy: Well, the one panel ones definitely are the least, my least favorite. But for this one, to me, it just works. I think it would have been, I mean, you could have broken it up. You could have had a, another part of the quote from Charlie Brown and then a silent panel, and that would make up four panels.
Michael: Well, I think what's really unusual about this strip is the fact that the punchline is actually the setup for a punchline. I mean, most people would think what Goliath's mom said would be the joke.
Jimmy: Right.
Michael: And here the joke is that this is what a little kid would think about, you know, hitting people in the head with stones is something little kids do, and then they always get yelled at.
Harold: Right. Do you feel that's a. That's a cheat, Michael? Or do you think that's just a Schulz Different way of approaching?
Michael: Well, I think it's unique that it's-- It's basically a character based joke.
Harold: Right.
Michael: Rather than, goliath gag.
Jimmy: Oh, yeah.
Michael: But I didn't find this very funny
Jimmy: Goliath Gag.
Harold: You know, that old, that genre.
Jimmy: Yeah, yeah, I.
Harold: That trope.
Jimmy: Everybody. Oh, another goliath gag.
Harold: Everybody gets stoned.
Michael: I didn't pick this because I didn't. I liked the setup, but it didn't seem like it was like a complete thought.
Jimmy: Well, I think that what you're, reacting to then, is the format rather than the joke, because I think this is basically the same, joke as what did the other team think? You know, that. That famous. Right. And, ah, that builds and builds and builds. It's a Sunday, and, you know, they were screaming, they were cheering. Everybody was happy. What did the other team think? Or how did the other team feel? I guess, is the punchline, and everybody loves that one. This is. That this is the same thing. It's just instead of that build, it's. He got hit in the head with a stone. What did his mom say about that? You know, it's so the timing is because there's no panels or no gutter between them. It's like, to me, reads. It's an instant response from Sally.
Michael: Yeah. It's just a little snapshot of their life, kind of.
Harold: That's a really good way to put it.
Jimmy: Yeah, that's an interesting way to put it.
Harold: Yeah. Yeah. And, that's really interesting to me because I feel something different in this single panel. We're so used to seeing the characters small and cramped in the classic style. That's what he was working with from day one. And now we've gone to, Cinemascope and HD, you know, a panel, and, you know, we know it's larger in the newspaper now because of an extra height compared to width. So this must really be a different experience for somebody reading it in the newspaper as well, because it's actually bigger. And I was noticing when he got a little extra height a few years ago, but he also was having to make his lettering so much bigger because he knew it was so much smaller on the paper. It's amazing how big the lettering is and how much it's taking up. And aesthetically, I think he was doing as good a job of that as he could. And I think his lettering is a real hallmark of this strip. I think there's something about that lettering that it's indefinable, but it's something that, well, he was a master letterer. He started lettering professionally. That was the thing that he got his first work, and he's really, really good at it. And he created his own Alphabet lettering style. And, that's something not to be diminished. There's just a feel about that that's hard to put your finger on, but it's distinctly Schulz and it complements the tone of the strip. But here it's taking up less space and I feel like it's starting to breathe again a little bit more, let's say, compared to earlier versions of the strip when the lettering was so tiny. It's getting back to that, often. And I kind of like that. I like the Idea that Charlie Brown and Sally are together on this couch. we couldn't have done that before on a daily. I don't think it just would have been too tiny.
Jimmy: Oh, yeah.
Harold: And so there's this sense of. I don't think unity is the right word, but there's this sense that the strip, in its staccato style, having the four panels all this time, lent itself to the characters being kind of divided or alienated with each other a little bit more in some ways. And there is something about hopping panel to panel that adds a bit of tension.
Harold: And the tension's not there in this strip. So it's a brother and a sister sitting on a couch together, and it has this different vibe that's kind of laid back. And I like it. I think it's kind of cool. I'm really intrigued that I get that feeling simply because it's a single panel.
Jimmy: Yeah, I like that way, Michael said about it's just like a little vignette into their lives. I mean, that is a great way to look at that. And I think everything you say is true. And I love that picture of the two of them on the couch together. That feels very familial. It feels very homey, you know?
Harold: Yeah. No, I think the lamp on the right, though, looks like the lava lamp died.
Jimmy: Yes, that's exactly what it looks like. Exactly. It looks like there's some liquid that has congealed at a weird angle.
Liz: I think that's an Ikea Ektorp couch.
Jimmy: So if you would like to order that, click on our affiliate link.
Michael: And I'm wondering what that jangly book cover is because, it matches the pillow. He's not reading the Bible. He must be reading, like, kid stories from the Bible or something.
Jimmy: Yeah, yeah.
Harold: It kind of looks like a cover to a Howard the duck comic or something.
Michael: I don't know.
Jimmy: It's the jangly book. And then
May 13, a two panel Marcie and Peppermint Patty sitting out there at the school lunchtime, and, Peppermint Patty reaches in her bag and says to Marcie, decided to start eating more vegetables for lunch. Marcie says, carrot cake is not a vegetable.
Michael: So this is an informative science.
Jimmy: One to grow on.
Michael: I did not know this.
Harold: Right. So when did this time out with. Wasn't it, Ronald Reagan who was saying that ketchup was a vegetable? Was that a thing?
Jimmy: Oh, that's right. The ketchup
Liz: That was Nancy.
Jimmy: Yeah. Well, it probably was a little bit before this, but. Yeah. Yeah. Ketchup is vegetable. well, one of my favorite restaurants in the world, Weaver D's delicious fine foods in Athens, Georgia, Mac and cheese is a vegetable, so.
Harold: Wow. I like that.
Liz: That's a stretch.
Jimmy: Well, at one point, it started as some type. There's. There's flour in there, right?
Harold: Well, both, technically.
Liz: Flour is not a vegetable.
Harold: It's a grain. It's a grain. so, actually, of the three we just mentioned, and tomatoes are a fruit, so, actually, Patty is the closest. She actually has carrots, so. Good on you, Patty. Hang in there.
Jimmy: Where does everybody stand on carrot cake. That's an important issue.
Liz: Thumbs up.
Harold: I like carrot cake. My wife does not like it at all. Diana does not like carrot cake.
Jimmy: Michael, you have not eaten a piece of cake. This at least, right?
Michael: 8 billion carrots. I can imagine it being good. I just.
Liz: Cynthia makes you carrot cake. sugar free carrot cake. You've. You've liked that?
Michael: See? I liked it.
Jimmy: There you go.
Harold: All right.
Jimmy: That's.
Michael: Mikey likes it.
Jimmy: Another Peanuts obscurity. I'm agnostic for carrot cake. I'll have it, but not if there's another cake available.
Harold: Well, that's kind of the.
Jimmy: Yeah, but I'm a huge zucchini bread fan, so I'm an enigma.
Harold: Banana bread. Zucchini bread. Yeah.
Jimmy: Oh, I love banana bread.
Liz: What about pumpkin bread?
Jimmy: Love pumpkin bread.
Michael: Yeah.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: A little less than the others, but. Yeah. Yeah.
Jimmy: Well, now that we've, dealt with the serious issues of life. I feel like we can go back to the strips here.
May 14. Snoopy is asleep on top of second base, and Charlie Brown comes out and says, I hate to say anything, but second base was not meant to be a pillow. If somebody hits a triple, they're going to step right on your head. To which Snoopy says, keep the ball low.
Harold: Closing his eyes again, going back to sleep.
Michael: This is kind of an insider joke. I mean, I think if you don't know baseball, you would not get the connection between keeping the ball low and somebody hitting a triple, right?
Harold: Yeah, I had to think a little bit about it because I'm just not a sports guy. I was like, okay, that makes sense, you know?
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: But much harder. Yeah, yeah.
Michael: I do have a problem, though, because even if they hit a double, you.
Jimmy: Have tons of problems. That's a whole other podcast.
Michael: I have a problem because even if somebody hits a double, they're gonna step on his head.
Jimmy: Well, this is interesting because this is exactly this insane thing I was thinking about while, I was reading this.
Harold: Well, if he's sliding in, that's exactly.
Jimmy: What I was about to say. Yes, Harold, that was the way I made peace with. He could slide in and technically not disturb Snoopy too much.
Harold: I love that third panel of Snoopy going back to sleep. And it's a close up on him that you couldn't have done with the four panel strip. This strip is made possible to look this good. So we basically zoom in on him and, you know, he's, he's vertical. You have to show the base, and you have to show Snoopy's head and then his body and his feet and just that extra width. It gives Schulz the right to zoom way in on Snoopy. And that's just a beautiful panel to me that I've never seen before in a daily. And I'm like, oh, that's so cool. You know, he's now able to do some things he hasn't been able to do for 38 years.
Jimmy: Yeah, absolutely.
Michael: Does not look comfortable.
Harold: I think, again, we've talked about this before. When someone's lying down, instead of having the little arm drag on the ground, he just has it out vertically. So it looks, if you look at it too hard, you think like, oh, my gosh, he's straining to keep his arm, off the ground horizontally is, I guess, what I meant to say, so, yeah. And yet in schultzian style, somehow it works. Unless you overthink it, like I can do sometimes.
Liz: Well, what about Snoopy Watch? he's an odd shape.
VO: It's Snoopy. Watch.
Harold: Well, his. His, his stomach and his butt kind of have the. The same volume as, you know, on either side of his leg, which I think is a little.
Jimmy: Yeah, I've been there myself.
Harold: But I like it. I like, I like that look. It's. It is very cute. Plush toy Snoopy. You know, if this or a plush toy, I'd be getting it, you know?
Jimmy: Yeah, I think.
Michael: I think old 50s Snoopy could have done this much better because that long snout could have just curled over the.
Harold: Yeah, that would have been cool, right?
Jimmy: That's real cute.
Michael: He's a little too, pudgy for this now.
Jimmy: I love the pudgy Snoopy, though. There is something so cuddly and cute about the pudgy Snoopy that really does me in. Like, the thing I find about Snoopy as we've gone through this. And so occasionally we'll go back and look at an old one for a special episode or whatever, or I'll just flip through. Right in front of my art desk is all of the Fawcett crest books I collected, through my life. all of Michael's original, paperbacks from when he was a kid. So sometimes I just pick them up and flip through them and whatever I'm looking at, I think, oh, that's the best era, right?
Michael: Yeah. He's morphed way more. Way, way, way more than any of the other characters.
Harold: Yeah, yeah.
Jimmy: It really.
Harold: And I am amazed that they work. It works all different styles.
Jimmy: That's what I don't understand fully, like, that it really does work in all those styles. The other thing I don't know is, like, has there been another character in any comic that has changed visually that much like Garfield does change with the single?
Harold: Yeah, Garfield changed a lot, but I think to the better in the same way. He kind of gets a little rounder and cuter. But the original was so close to another artist's style that I'm happy for Jim Davis that he found something that was uniquely his own.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: Snoopy. It is amazing that he's changed so much. And what I often note, artists do change the style and the look of the characters. But generally what happens, and maybe you'll agree with this anyway, with, for Schulz, Michael, but I. Is that they nail it, at the point when people accept it and it becomes a hit. And then over the years, they go off the rails into a place that's much less appealing. And you're like, oh, you know, it's the later version of that character or whatever by this artist. And I don't get that feeling with Peanuts. and I know Schulz tried at the end of his life to get all of the licensing to move in the direction of where he was at the moment. And they honored that for a number of years after he died. And then as they were putting more and more classic strips out, and, of course, we have animations starting in 1965, which is a very different Snoopy. what I see is he's broadened out a little bit more in terms of where he is in the licensing. But it does seem like the Snoopy that Schulz wound up with stuck in the public's eye. You know, like, I mean, a little kid, to me, is the one who's gonna decide, yeah, right. Which is the version of Snoopy that's gonna survive. And it's way closer to this later Snoopy than it is to any of the earlier Snoopy.
Michael: I don't know anything about the toys, but did the cartoon, the comic strip Snoopy, morph into the toy Snoopy?
Harold: No.
Jimmy: I think that. No, but I'm fairly certain, and I have no direct insight into this, but I'm fairly certain that they were constantly trying to make sure, sure that the current licensing stuff looked like the more recent snoopies, to the point that when I was, and this might be me projecting it. But in the early years of Comic Con, when we would go, not, the early years of comic con, but early years of us going, which, would be the early two thousands, they even had a Snoopy plush that the material made it look like it was a wavy line. Do you remember that?
Harold: Oh, gosh, yes. uh-huh.
Jimmy: Yeah. So I think it's the opposite. I think he's changing his style just by working every day and it naturally changing. And him not being, not having model sheets or anything like that. But then I think it made it difficult for everybody else to make sure that the toys looked like that.
Harold: But I do think that, that you'd agree that they've backed off on that. And so, like, to the year 1999 Snoopy is no longer the one that is forced on people. You're seeing more and more merchandise out there that is more representative. and let's say a 1962 Snoopy was selling as a specialty item. Let's say, was selling three times what the 1999 Snoopy was. The licensing would move toward the 1962 Snoopy.
Jimmy: And I think it does. I think there was a period of time probably when Schulz was very sensitive about wanting to it to be the current stuff that I think that mattered more. I think this is kind of the era of that. And I think eventually you just let that go and you'd have to see it as a totality or like a, you know, life's work. And then. Yeah, the 1965 Snoopy. 62 Snoopy or whatever. That's great on a greeting card, but I really remember the eighties greeting cards having the wobbly line even though someone else was doing it.
Harold: And.
Michael: Yeah, I. Yeah, but who would be the second most morphed character?
Jimmy: That's a good question.
Michael: Charlie Brown. I think the size of the head is something that's changed. And I think in general, all of his characters, he started doing this little cup shaped mouth at some point a few years ago, which he, he didn't do before. I mean, even looking at this strip, the second base strip we were just looking at Charlie Brown's mouth would not have looked like that previously. But I think all the characters have that, that mouth shape.
Harold: Now I'm thinking back and --. The kids don't seem relative to one another that different. If I had to choose one, I would say, of course some of them were introduced as babies, that's true. But I would say Lucy.
Jimmy: Lucy shifted the saucer eyes, the pajamas.
Harold: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not by a lot.
Jimmy: And then, going back really far, Violet, you could say that early Violet is a totally different character. You could say that.
Michael: Well, and there was a serious change of hairstyle.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: Right.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: I mean generally this Charlie Brown right here wouldn't look too far out of place if you pasted him into a 1955.
Jimmy: Now, when you say this is a later day mouth that he's drawing, can you explain exactly what you're seeing there? That is different than it used to be.
Michael: I think he, I mean, I'd have to go back and study it, which I'm too lazy to do. I think he used to have the open mouth as kind of a triangle. I mean, coming to a point. And I started noticing, yeah, in the seventies it was this, it's much more gentle line.
Harold: Yeah.
Harold: Interesting.
Jimmy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitely see what you're saying.
Michael: I mean we can go back and look at some point to some earlier strips and see I think it was mostly the mouths that have morphed.
Harold: I remember early fifties stuff was, was hard angle like little triangle versus a.
Jimmy: the little Picasso look sometimes, you know. Yeah. Okay, that'll be an episode of pure craziness. What did surprise look like in 1958 versus surprise in 1988? Or, something like that.
Harold: But, boy, it's so true that Michael, what you're saying is that this strip, in various ways has gone from angles to curves. I mean, the infamous W. That was all points. And then he said, hey, in a single stroke, instead of me going line down. line down, line down, line down. In a single stroke, I can do a w, you know. And all of a sudden it's all curves and you see it in the mouth. Snoopy's, getting rounder. We're saying it's really interesting. Even the, balloon pointers get this weird curve in, them.
Michael: But I think it's, it's gentler characters.
Harold: Yes.
Michael: Charlie Brown here is not yelling at Snoopy. He's making a comment. Whereas think of, before, there'd be some kind of expression about like, you're stupid.
Jimmy: Well, yeah. As opposed to him coming up and saying, I hate to say anything, but. Right.
Harold: Yeah.
Jimmy: Gentle way to start a joke.
Harold: And it goes back to that. Anger, happiness. You know, we saw it through the roof in the late fifties. And then, it's generally just trailed off. It's a different strip in that regard. Yeah, it's. The edges are. There are a lot of edges that have been rounded on this strip.
May 25. Charlie Brown and Franklin are out for a walk on a beautiful spring day. And Franklin says, my grandpa went to his high school's 40th reunion last night. He's also been to a college reunion and an army reunion. They're on the street corner now looking both ways before they cross, which I like. And now they're buying a ticket for a show, I guess. And Franklin, says to Charlie Brown, he has a new career. He goes back to things.
Jimmy: Now I want to talk. Michael mentioned, I believe in last episode, streakiness. And the thing I find interesting about this is we've had Franklin now for, oh, a couple of decades. And now he figures out what to do with him. Franklin's invested, in his family. He's close to his grandfather. And he is his pal Charlie Brown to talk to about these things. And why did it take that long? I don't know. But suddenly it's there and it's like, oh, yeah, this is his personality. This is what it always was.
Harold: When they met on the beach, did they have any. I feel the tone was the same. I don't remember if they had any deepest conversations.
Jimmy: Very early we find out that Franklin's dad was in the military but I can't. I don't know if that's the first time or not.
Harold: Yeah.
Michael: I don't know if this is characterization so much as something to hang the dialogue on.
Jimmy: Yeah, well, okay, maybe I, shouldn't have expressed it as a characterization thing, but it. But it works for the character. It gives him something to do in this world that's not just, like it tells you as m much about him as the piano says about Schroeder.
Harold: Yeah, well, they were talking about dads together, and now they. They're moving to granddads. I think it's so sweet because, you know, this is Schulz's granddad thinking of jokes because he's a granddaddy and he's moved up a generation because he's moved up a generation in what they talk about. And I do like the little moments where they're just kind of sharing these, their kid like insights with one another.
Michael: Well, I think this strip is showing them as good friends who do things together. they could have easily been standing at the thinking wall.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: But here they're. They're taking a walk. They're standing. I think it's a bus stop. They're waiting at a bus stop. They're going the movies together.
Harold: yeah.
Michael: That doesn't add anything. The fact that they're going to a movie is not anything new with this.
Harold: Well, I have a. I have a theory what movie it is. Because that movie came, out on this day. And that movie was, the. The top grossing film, that came out in May of 1988.
Jimmy: Hang on. 1988. And you think you'd be able to tell by the, what he's talking about.
Michael: Or the no, just the.
Harold: This is. This is the release date of the biggest movie in May. It was May 25. So odds are. And, you know, it's the one that a kid could go to without having to have an adult. Let them in 1988.
Jimmy: I can't think I could name, like, a hundred movies from 1989. I cannot at the moment. Name one from 1988.
Harold: It's a sequel. I'll give you a hint. It's a sequel.
Jimmy: Oh, a, sequel. I don't know. No. No Idea.
Harold: Crocodile Dundee two.
Jimmy: Oh, boy.
Harold: That's the one to go to on May 25.
Liz: And, speaking of going back to things, May, 25th, 1988, was Michael's and my first date.
Michael: Wow.
Jimmy: What did you do?
Michael: We went to see Crocodile Dundee II
Liz: No, we went to the beach. and he told me the story of the, red hand.
Harold: Oh.
Michael: Which we saw a couple of last episodes here.
Jimmy: I think about that all the time. That is one of the most chilling stories I've ever heard in my life. that's a great story. Well, I am glad. You obviously had a good time, Liz.
Liz: We did.
Jimmy: Put up with his nonsense..
Harold: Well, there's one other thing that's kind of new or unique in this strip. I don't know if it's the first time, but it's certainly within, you know, a few months that something else has changed in this particular strip. I'm trying to go back really quick and flip through and see if this is the first one or nothing.
Michael: Well, you always throw in these things. No, you're always stumped when you come.
Jimmy: Up with these things in just this panel. And rather. I mean. And what am I? What am I?
Harold: it's something he hasn't done. Done for. Done visually before, to my knowledge, until this strip. Could be. I could be wrong, but I'm looking back through, and I think it's true.
Michael: People looking in opposite directions.
Jimmy: That's what I was gonna say.
Michael: Really?
Jimmy: Yes, it is. And I'm not proud that that was. Yes.
Harold: Oh, okay. It's the second time he's done it. Second time he's done it. He did it two days earlier.
Michael: Really?
Liz: Tell us.
Michael: Come on.
Harold: He used zipatone on Franklin to give the shading.
Jimmy: Oh, my gosh. How could we not notice that! the podcast is canceled.
Harold: and I like it way better than him having to do so much better.
Michael: Yeah. By amazing. I didn't notice that.
Harold: Wow.
Jimmy: I think we should be ashamed of ourselves, Michael.
Michael: Yeah, let's. I resigned from.
Liz: Let's re record this and say it.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: Yeah.
Jimmy: Okay. Take two.
Liz: Is it that there's Zipatone on Franklin?
Jimmy: Excellent insight, Liz. I was gonna say the same thing.
Harold: The editor has that wonderful final say how this plays.
Jimmy: Yeah, you'll know how. Well, you won't. You'll either think we're really smart or really honest, depending on what version of this podcast goes out. Oh, boy.
June 7. It's a baseball, game. Charlie Brown's on the mound, and he yells, all right, Lucy, let's look alive out there. Be ready. Pay attention. Concentrate. To which Lucy replies, why? And then Charlie Brown says, that's a good question.
Michael: I picked this one because, really, this is, This is sports. What's the point? I mean, why? I mean, none of this stuff makes sense.
Harold: All right, Jimmy, go onto your, thing on the value of sports.
Jimmy: Here's what I have to say. About. No, no. Why, though? If you ask that question, you're going to find yourself going down very, interesting paths in life. And I think it's one of the best questions you can ask yourself. I'll give a real small version of why. I think why is the. Because I picked this one as well. There was a YouTube channel I watched, every single day, especially during the pandemic, and it was all about comics. And I loved it. It ended tragically, but I loved it. And, they were one day saying, you know what? Never color the sky blue. You know, you should color it all different colors would be more interesting. And I was like, yeah, I agree with that. yeah, absolutely. Then they said it a second time, and I'm like, okay, you said that. Then they said it a third time. I'm like, okay, I'm coloring all my skies blue now. You never said why. You just said, don't do it. I'm like, all right, well, if you have such a great reason for why, include it. Tell me why. Because you can't make it look good. All right, well, that. There's a lot of things you can't make good. I've seen your comics, so, you know, I don't think that necessarily should affect it.
Michael: Yeah, she's never caught a ball, as far as we know. So why, look alive out there. What difference is that gonna make, right?
Jimmy: And also, you know, for. In terms of value for sports… I got nothing. I got nothing.
Harold: When it comes to life, there's worse things to do than just living your life looking alive, being ready, paying attention, and concentrating. So
Jimmy: you know what? Boom. There you go. That's the best advice I think you've ever gotten on this podcast. So here. That is great. We're going to take a break. We'll come back, answer the mail, finish up some strips, and we'll see on the other side.
BREAK
VO: Hi, everyone. Have you seen the latest anger and happiness index? Have you admired the photo of Jimmy as Luke Skywalker? Or read the details of how Michael co created the first comic book price guide? Just about every little known subject we mention is referenced on the Unpacking Peanuts website. Peanuts obscurities are explained further, and other stories are expanded more than you ever wanted to know, from Albert payson terhune to zipatone, Annette Funicello to Zorba the Greek. Check it all out@unpackingpeanuts.com/obscurities.
Jimmy: And we're back. Hey, Liz, do we got anything in the mailbox.
Liz: We do. We got one from David Shair, longtime fan of the podcast. He writes, while seeing my parents July 4 weekend, I was able to visit the Norman Rockwell Museum in Stockbridge, Massachusetts.
Harold: Oh, that's a great place.
Jimmy: Amazing place.
Liz: Yeah, yeah, we've been there. It was wonderful. They're currently exhibiting What Me Worry? The art and humor of Mad magazine.
Jimmy: Oh, cool.
Liz: The exhibit is fantastic and large and very Mad. It'll take a solid time commitment to see everything displayed. To my surprise, what they happen to have on the wall are two original Charles Schulz strips, one of which you talked about on the podcast. It's from the Mister Sack sequence where Charlie Brown ends up seeing Alfred E. Newman in the sky.
Jimmy: Oh, I would love to see the original of that.
Harold: Yeah.
Jimmy: I'd want to be able to see if you could, if there was a tracing of Alfred E. Newman, a light box situation.
Harold: How tortured is the, is the inking? Get it just right.
Liz: he says, interestingly, I was visiting the museum on July 5, the same date this particular Peanuts, Alfred E. Newman strip, came out in 1973. On the original artwork, you can see a message written by Schulz to Mad editor Al Feldstein. And it says, for Albert B. Feldstein, with every best wish, Charles M. Schulz. And, David sends us photographs from his visit.
Jimmy: Very neat.
Michael: Cool.
Harold: Yeah.
Michael: I didn't know the Rockwell museum was doing stuff like that.
Jimmy: I thought, yeah, they did a few years ago. One where they had Howard Cruz, Dave Sim, Terry Moore.
Michael: Really?
Jimmy: And maybe someone else. And I don't remember what the theme was, but they had a, whole show of just those cartoonists, which was amazing. P. Craig Russell, I think, was the other one.
Harold: Wow. Well, thanks, David. That's really cool. It makes me want to go back to the museum and check that out.
Jimmy: Oh, it's such a great place. We got two things from the hotline, two texts. This is from Jim Meyer, super listener Jim Meyer, who says, count me in as a major Spike fan. To me, Spike is Snoopy's shadow, a representation of where his fantasies could lead if he didn't have Charlie Brown and the others grounding him. I think he adds some good old existentialism to the strip. BOGC. Jim Meyer. It's a real good way to look at it, I think.
Michael: Really?
Harold: That's fascinating. Yeah. The idea that Snoopy's in this little hammock in this suburban neighborhood.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: And, yeah.
Michael: But which would you rather do? talk to a cactus or get shot down by a German pilot.
Jimmy: I think you got a chance with the pilot. I think the cactus, it's a losing situation the minute it starts.
Harold: Yeah, that's a good point.
Jimmy: I do think that is what people. I like that existentialism feel to it. I think that is what people who respond to spike respond to. we had a listener in a previous episode who said something similar, that it's a representation of those long, dark nights Schulz would have sometimes.
Harold: Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that's the part of it that maybe disturbs me a little bit, is that there's this stasis with the cactus and all of this wherever. It's like Spike has something in him to push beyond where he is, and he always falls back. That's the part of the kind of, oh, you know, I never really thought.
Jimmy: Of that, but that is a. That is a, interesting depression.
Harold: But Spike doesn't give up. Yeah. Which is, which is cool. You know, Spike is not someone who just, you know, gives up. He's always take it another go, and it's cool.
Michael: But it is existential. It's. It's waiting for cactus.
Jimmy: Yes, it is. It's absolutely. And there's one other one. this is from Molly D. Who says hello. Loving the podcast and racing to catch up. I am intrigued by your discussion of Woodstock's design. While I always regarded him as a cutie, I was surprised to hear your effusive praise for this particular character. I'd love to hear more about what you artists can see that we mere mortals can't. Oh, boy. Please never.
Michael: As an artist, I can tell you.
Jimmy: Please never stop the podcast and be of good cheer. Molly D. Oh, thanks, Molly.
Michael: Yeah, no, it says, it's not as an artist. It's. It's the fact that we're talking about these panels and looking at them for ten minutes, and you kind of go, wow, how did they get that little expression, in this character that's so small?
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: It's a classic thing of doing so much with so little. You know, how many lines are in Woodstock's head and how simple are they? And how does he draw it in a way that only he could draw it? How did he come to that as a bird? That's not a bird.
Jimmy: How did he come to that as a bird?
Harold: But it's a bird
Jimmy: Yeah. The two things that you guys said that is that I would sum it up as is how small it is. How did he get an expression on that tiny, small, little character, and how is that a bird? Yet it is a bird. and that's just a unique genius that. And we, you know, talking about actually characters that change over time. If you consider that before there was Woodstock, there were those really realistic. Really, you know, relative to Schulz, realistically drawn birds that hung around Snoopy's, doghouse back in the late fifties and into the sixties.
Harold: The realistic birds that played poker?
Jimmy: No, no. Before that. Before that. Way before that. When they were actually bird looking, beings that flew around, and then they morphed: into this thing where it's not based on some sort of. Usually, you feel like there's some sort of observation, but, like, you look at Woodstock's head, there's nothing like bird like about it, except that there is an alienness in the, In his stoic expressions that birds have.
Harold: Yeah.
Jimmy: And how does that occur when it's a dot, which is the same dot of ink that's on Charlie Brown's head and then Linus's head? Why does it read like that? And I think the answer is genius.
Harold: Well, I mean, you talk about images as icons, and you talk about, you know, the letters of the Alphabet as icons. And I mentioned this very recently how Schulz is getting so close to making an image, almost as if it's like a word, a representational word. And I love that in cartooning. I think it's unique. And for some reason, I almost always. I'm attracted to the things that boil down the essence of something into just a few lines. And Woodstock is probably, I mean, there's got to be another character that's simpler, but I can't think of one. Right, but it's uniquely his. And just like you said, jimmy, how is Woodstock uniquely Schulz's? How does he own that when it's almost like a letter in the Alphabet that everybody could use? Because so few lines? And that, to me, is genius. Like you said, that is the beauty of cartooning. And that's what I love about Schulz in general. And Woodstock is what, the apotheosis of what can be done with simplifying, simplifying, simplifying. And yet it still has your signature on it. It's amazing.
Jimmy: Yep.
Michael: And plus the fact that you can't ever understand what he's saying. So it's. It's really as simple as you can get.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: Right.
Jimmy: And.
Harold: Yeah.
Jimmy: And it takes a real level of confidence to put, okay, this character is gonna take up one 20th of the panel. And like you, ah, say, you're not gonna be able to understand a word, however, you're gonna love them.
Michael: Like, yeah, everybody's favorite characters.
Harold: Yeah.
Jimmy: So that's the end of the mailbox. If you want to reach out to us, you can, email us at unpackingpeanuts@gmail.com. you can also reach out to us on social media. I'll give you those handles at the end. I just wanted to say one last thing. it's a little sad. You guys don't know this out there, but there was another member of our team here almost, every single episode. my little puppy Ginny, would sit here and listen to us every week as we record. And, she passed away this weekend. She, lived a great life. She was 13 years old. She was a little white Bichon. And I figured if, you know, anybody would appreciate the sadness of losing a puppy, it would be people who like a Snoopy podcast. So I just wanted to say thanks to her for being by my side for all this time. And, rest in puppy power, Ginny.
Harold: Oh, she was a sweetie.
Liz: To Ginny.
Jimmy: To Ginny. All right, let's get back to those strips.
June 16. Snoopy, has gone to visit his brother Spike out in the desert, for a little dose of existentialism. and here's he's out there because Spike has convinced him that the 19, 88 Olympics have moved to Needles, California, from Korea. And, Snoopy has gone out to sell merch. So, Snoopy is upset at this point. And he says to Spike, I came all the way out here to help you sell souvenirs at the Olympic games. I came because you're my brother. Now, you say that a cactus told you that the games have been moved from Korea to needles. So then Snoopy finishes this up with, I can understand talking to a cactus, but listening, and Spike says, I get lonely.
Jimmy: Well, boy, this is kind of what our listener was talking about, you know, because Snoopy is constantly talking to things he doesn't see or are imaginary. But Snoopy is suggesting that he has 1ft closer in reality, right? Because, well, he's not listening to his imaginary beings.
Michael: Okay, but think about this, because I've been staring at this strip for five minutes. Okay? Imagine you were. You're on this scene. You're kind of eavesdropping on this scene, right? You don't hear either of them.
Michael: Imagine this strip. Just the pictures, no words.
Harold: Hm
Michael: It's insane.
Jimmy: Well, the whole thing is insane. Here's a great. Here's something I was thinking about recently. actually I thought about it once we got that text from the listener who was-- Jim--And I thought, you know, there is a universe where I can see in the late sixties, some cartoonist, say some hippie cartoonist coming out with a strip about a dog in the desert talking to a cactus. And that's the whole strip. And I think there would be a Nancy fest style celebration of whoever that guy is. Schulz is able to incorporate things that would be enough, you know, to sustain someone else's entire strip. And he just has it off as a little side world. And I think that's actually why some, some people don't jibe with it, because it's not the part of the world that they're most connected to. But if it were separated from it, I think you would find a lot that is funny, a lot that's poetic, a lot that's interesting. It's always good looking. It's really, really an interesting thing.
Michael: It could be a totally separate strip I never read.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: Yeah. I just, it's it's too on the mark. I find it way too depressing.
Harold: The thing that strikes me about this strip is Snoopy's role in it is the first time I've seen Snoopy in this role where he's like the the voice of reason to somebody who has a flight of fancy bigger than him.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: And that grounds Snoopy. And he's also doing it because he's loyal to his brother. You know, Snoopy's often this kind of, I'm on my own. I'm doing my own thing. I'm disconnected from everybody else in my own fantasy world. And here he enters into somebody else's fantasy world out of loyalty as a brother. And then he's trying to speak some sort of, if not reason, at least he's trying to understand his brother. It's like, wow, this is a Snoopy I have never seen before.
Michael: Yeah. They're usually corresponding and, letters and stuff.
Jimmy: Yeah. You saying that, do you know what it makes me think of?
Harold: What's that?
Jimmy: Michael will know this. The movie Crumb with, about. It's a documentary about Robert Crumb and his brother Charles. They are both recipients of the same genes. And that has led them off in various different, directions. And, you know, Robert Crumb was able to take his weird fantasies that were really, I think, painful to him more than anything else and become a world famous artist. And, you know, Charles Crumb didn't. It's really a depressing place to go after thinking about it. But, you know, for a strip about two dogs in the desert. But it seems like there's something to that. Like, because there's a scene in the. I mean, not that Schulz was thinking of it or knew anything about this at this point, but, you know, there's a scene where Charles. Or where Robert Crumb goes back and visits his brother Charles, and there's so much connection there, and so. And yet, oceans of difference.
Michael: And one of them, even though he's done the most insane comics anyone's ever done, is totally sane.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: And one is stark raving mad.
Jimmy: Right.
Michael: And they're both cartoonists. They both do weird stuff. But Crumb is dealing with, the real world, right? Or at least his imaginary world.
Jimmy: Yes, it is. It's interesting. And I don't know, like, what is it? Is there some level of control someone has over that, or is it, you know, what's the difference between being really imaginative and being schizophrenic? You know, like, I don't know.
Michael: It's hard to tell.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: Sometimes it's hard to tell.
Jimmy: Yeah. And how many. How many great artists crossed the line, unfortunately.
Michael: Well, I mean, but clearly a lot of great artists were. Were totally nuts.
Jimmy: Oh, yeah, for sure.
Michael: William Blake. I mean, that stuff's nuts.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: But it's also great art.
Jimmy: Yeah. Whereas somewhat. Well, there's, There's Joyce, again, that. That reads as nuts. But he was saying, I mean, he might have been a jerk in a lot of ways, but he was saying.
Silence from the Peanuts gallery. All right, moving on to July 2.
Harold: I was just thinking about William blake, and what you said about Blake is I went to a Blake exhibit at the Tate gallery that was really well done and deeply disturbing. Deeply, deeply disturbing. Yeah. and yet, the thing is that I don't know that he was insane, and that's what makes it even more disturbing.
Michael: Well, you can believe crazy things and not be crazy. That's what I think.
Jimmy: Oh, I do that every single day. Hey, let's do a podcast.
Michael: Plus, I really like fact that we are the Peanut gallery.
Jimmy: Yeah. I didn't even mean that as a pun. That just came out. That was really funny. Oh, boy, Blake is one of those guys that is just a total blind spot to me. Like, there are, There are. It's weird that, you know, you can't keep, everyone in your mind or in your field of vision, and I just know almost nothing about that guy. Except, like, the quote in Watchmen.
Harold: Yeah, that's a whole, whole other massive discussion. But, yeah, Blake, it was pretty dark.
Jimmy: There you go.
July 2. Snoopy is walking down the street, not thinking about Blake or anything else, but he comes across a road sign that just says, Dip.. And in the next panel, he does just that, lowering his head by about six inches.
Michael: And I don't know if either of you would pick up on this or anybody out there is going to pick up on this, but I can't help when I look at that third panel. Do you guys know Jim Woodring's strip? Jim?
Jimmy: Oh, of course.
Harold: Uh-huh.
Michael: And Frank, his character, Frank, walks like that all the time.
Jimmy: Oh, that's true.
Michael: That's his pose. Because he's in this crazy world where horrible things happen all the time, and he's kind of like. It's a very cautious walk. Like something really weird, happen in any second.
Harold: You never know. Yeah. What's funny? You said that it made you think of another comic. It made me think of another comic, too, but a different one. What one's that one? One of the most famous BC comics.
Jimmy: I thought you were going to say BC yet.
Harold: February 9, 1970. you got BC on his wheel. You know, he's running on his wheel, this little single wheel, transportation device. And he's going by a thing, a sign that says dip in road. And then he goes by a very goofy looking guy sitting on a rock. And then the last panel just says, I don't believe it.
Michael: But that word wouldn't mean anything to anybody anymore. No one. No one would call anyone a dip for the last 40 years.
Jimmy: I'm gonna. We're bringing it back now.
Harold: That's a good question. If our younger listeners can tell us if they know that one or not. Is it. Is. This is a BC obscurity.
Michael: It's a BC obscurity, but, the word is extinct. If you said, he's a dip it wouldn't mean anything.
Jimmy: I think people figure it out.
July 12. Lucy comes up to the old pitcher’s mound and says to Charlie Brown, what would your fantasy team be? Charlie Brown? Charlie Brown says, a team that doesn't have you on it. Lucy walks back to, the outfield saying, I should never ask questions like that.
Michael: He would never have done that years ago.
Jimmy: Sure he would have.
Michael: No, no, no. He would say something nice.
Jimmy: No, no, no. That's many.
Michael: That, is a classic put down. And, yeah, he would not into that.
Jimmy: listeners write in and tell us, Charlie Brown's previous put downs to Lucy he's definitely done it.
Harold: I think fifties Charlie Brown might have done it.
Jimmy: Absolutely.
Harold: It was smart aleck Charlie Brown might have done it. Or angry Charlie Brown. Late fifties.
Jimmy: I think there's well into the sixties and seventies he would do this. not always, but sometimes not always. It is great to see Lucy put in her place. But, you know, something struck me about Charlie Brown. He's a manager and a pitcher of, this baseball team, right? And every player's role should be to do whatever it takes, within the rules of the game, to win. That's the thing. That's. That's even how you honor the other team you're playing. Right? Charlie Brown is not just a player, he's the manager. And he knows that at least Linus is better, to be the pitcher. But he won't step down. He won't not be the pitcher. He could easily fix his team if he just put himself at first base. I mean, he might be a disaster first base, too. But, you know, at least you're not going to be giving up runs. And that's a selfishness.
Michael: But keeping her in right field is a good move as a manager for him.
Jimmy: Yeah, yeah, but I'm just saying for his own sake. Yeah. you know, like, I mean, you should. You have to.
Harold: That's a really good insight. Yeah, he's. He's self centered and obsessed enough that that's non negotiable. And there's nobody who cares enough to challenge him, right?
Jimmy: Yeah. Yeah. So it's doomed to fail. And that's an interesting. That's like the Alan Moore. Just change one thing, Charlie Brown. Don't pitch. See what happens? And your life might change the next day.
Harold: Okay, that's our pitch for the next apple special. Don't Pitch, Charlie Brown.
Jimmy: Don't pitch, Charlie Brown. That's great pitch of, the week. Actually, I have already broken down story wise. We'll have a meeting afterwards.
Harold: All right.
July 15. It's Lydia. She is back, and, she has been hanging out with Linus here. She says to him, thank you for the chocolate sundae, Linus. And Linus says, you're welcome. Maybe we can do it again sometime. And Lydia turns, looks at him, gives him an appraising gaze, and then says, I don't think so. I don't find you very interesting, leaving Linus alone in the last panel, leaned up against a tree. And he calls himself Joe Beige.
Jimmy: Lydia is a genius.
Harold: Oh, she's Lydia. Lydia, you're just jerking us all over the place. Oh, my gosh.
Michael: I wouldn't have expected Schulz to come up with a character like this.
Harold: Okay.
Michael: it's. She's, like, evil in a different way than Violet and Patty were evil.
Jimmy: She's a master manipulator.
Harold: Yeah, she's kind of stoically playful with Linus, which I think is fascinating. And that's what would make me fascinated with a Lydia. If she would give you a moment, she would engage with you, even to tell you that she shouldn't be engaging with you, but she doesn't go away. That would drive me nuts. Like Linus and, you know, Schulz.
Jimmy: Ladies, out there in the audience, you want to take some notes? Yeah, this will work.
Michael: But the fact that this is what I find interesting is, the fact that she doesn't find him interesting. Linus, the most interesting complex character in modern literature, but, of course, is not interesting.
Jimmy: She totally finds him interesting. That's why she's out for the chocolate sundae. She just knows the exact right thing.
Harold: Unless she's out for the chocolate sundae. But I think you're right, Jimmy. I think that they're. Yeah, she's, she's playing him. And Linus is, very, unusually, being very literal, because he cares so much about her. Linus can be very figurative about things, but here he's being literal when she's messing with him, and he's falling for so often.
Michael: Well, maybe he's not interesting with her because he's afraid of. She thinks he's too weird. He is pretty weird.
Jimmy: I wonder how much of her. His weirdness she's, aware of at the. This point.
Michael: She doesn't know about the blanket.
Jimmy: He hasn't gone on. Well, she does know about the blanket, but he hasn't gone on about the Great Pumpkin. That's, I think, the deal breaker for a lot of people.
Michael: Okay, I hope that comes up sometime soon.
Harold: the second panel is unusual. Very rare that we don't have that little parenthesis around the back of Linus's eye when she's telling him. She doesn't find him very interesting. Do you think he did that on purpose to get a different look out of. It's almost Linus, because that's a very different look.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: Sort of shock in a way. Like who I'm the most.
Harold: Yeah.
Michael: Here in the strip.
Harold: It's somehow takes him out of himself and more focused on her, maybe.
Jimmy: Yeah. I love the smile on her face in panel one because she knows she's playing him.
Michael: And also, my other comment. What's wrong with beige? I think beige is a great color.
Liz: The name Joe Beige, it's wonderful. There's nothing wrong with being a Joe Beige.
Michael: Yeah. It's like Jobim, Antonio Carlos, Joe Beige. Yeah. What's wrong with Beige? See, I didn't like the, I didn't think the punchline was good. Because I think he could have said something more interesting than Joe Beige.
Harold: So you're agreeing with Lydia?
Michael: Yeah. Right. I think he's a very dull when he's with her.
Harold: I liked Joe Beige personally.
Jimmy: Yeah, I did too. Yeah.
Harold: Kind of cool. But.
Jimmy: Well, does Joe blank thing exist? I mean, obviously people did it before Peanuts, but it's so a part of Peanuts because of the Joe cool thing. And like other characters constantly referring to themselves as Joe something or another.
Harold: It's such a neat little haiku kind of way of saying something in two words. He's able to lets you know what he's feeling.
Michael: Yeah. Now this, I don't know how they would translate this when they translate into other languages. Because this would not be a joke in any other language.
Harold: Someone would have to do some heavy, heavy lifting over at the syndicate. in France.
Michael: Yeah.
July 16. Lydia calls Linus and she says, hi, Linus. This is Lydia in the second panel. Linus is on the phone and he says, if you don't find me very interesting, why do you call me? And then Lydia says, there's nothing on tv.
Michael: Man, he's really angry. I've never seen Linus so angry.
Harold: Yeah, he's angry in that second panel for sure.
Michael: This is really an interesting, interesting little, relationship here.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: But the big smile on her face. Obviously she's happy to talk to Linus. She's not just kind of bored.
Jimmy: Here's the genius of this, I think we always see Lydia with Linus and we never see that big smile. she's. Linus can't see her. This is Lydia as she actually is. Right. She's thrilled to be talking to Linus and that. But she also knows this is how. Well, it's two things. This is how you keep them on the hook. And this is how I don't get hurt by engaging in this relationship.
Harold: So Schulz is playing us.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: Right. Yeah.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: We get to see that there's something there, even though Linus can't see it.
Jimmy: You know, it's really sophisticated writing and cartooning that I think just whizzes by you when you're reading it in the newspaper. But you know, if you're crazy person. And, you read them this closely, you really do find little things that just adds so much richness to it. And I think that's one of them.
Harold: Yeah. Ah.
Jimmy: All right, we're bringing it on home. Just three left.
August 2. Marcie and, Charlie Brown are hanging out at the beach, and, Marcie says, they're actually having a little picnic. And Marcie says, I love fortune cookies, don't you, Charles? And she says, mine says, you will have a happy day. What does yours say? And Charlie Brown reads his, and it's, we're sorry, but we're not in. Now, if you leave your name and number, we'll try to get back to you.
Jimmy: That's a pretty good fortune cookie joke, but the best fortune cookie is Gary Shandling's. Do you know this one?
Liz: No.
Harold: What's that?
Jimmy: They're all. It's eating chinese food at a restaurant, and they're reading their fortune cookies. And Gary Shandling opens his, and it says, I peed in your rice. Hey, are these things supposed to be handwritten?
Harold: Oh, man. I picked this strip, because I was just really happy to see that, apparently on their own.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: Charlie Brown and Marcie have made a little date to go out to the beach, and they're both sitting on the same blanket, and they've got a picnic basket and little, little cup. And it looks like, they're finishing up with the fortune cookies. Haven't seen this before.
Jimmy: No.
Harold: With Marcie. Independently, somehow. I'm assuming. Maybe she was the one that made it happen, but she made it happen. I didn't think these two had it in them to make this happen, but I'm very glad they did. It's cool to see it. yeah. It's not the punchline. It's just the premise that Marcie and Charlie Brown would go off and do something together. I thought was.
Jimmy: Yeah. And that goes back to what Michael was saying. It's like, oh. It's like a little moment. You know, the important thing about it is, oh, my gosh. These two characters are having this little picnic, and I actually think it's another really well drawn strip. I do like the use of zipatone on the blanket. I think that looks really good. You, know, if I think he would done a pattern, it would have been too busy. If he left it blank or black, it wouldn't have been clear. So I think it, looks real good.
Michael: But there is a problem. There's a problem with the zipatone. If you look between his feet. And panel one, there's a little chunk there that should be zipatone.
Jimmy: That's all. That is the, that is the bane of the zipatone. Yeah. Okay, so, guys, out there in, podcast land, look at Marcie panel one. Look at her fortune cookie, and look right below it. You'll see that part of the blanket. Zipa tone between her two toes. If you go over to Charlie Brown, you'll notice, as Michael saying, he left it out because you would have,
Harold:or it fell off.
Jimmy: Yeah. Yeah. Because they were just adhesive backed sheets of film that had those dots that you're seeing. They're printed on them, and you would just cut a piece that's roughly the size of the blanket but slightly larger. And then with an exacto knife, follow along those ink lines to cut out all the excess zipatone. And in some instances, you just, you just missed something. I was really bad. I did it in my, like, first amateur comics, you know, Shades of Gray. And, I used it a lot.
Harold And shades of gray. After all, you had to find some way to do it.
Michael: Yeah.
Jimmy: Oh, that's actually true, though. And, you know, I was so bad at it because I picked stuff that was way, that the, the dot pattern was way too fine. Or if I made, had a tear in the zipitone and be like, well, I'll just patch it. You won't be able to tell, but you can always tell.
Harold: It's so hard to line it up. Yeah.
Jimmy: And then, God forbid you had to put Zipitone over white out, because that can't, that won't work. That'll moiré, it's a, it's, real. You have no Idea how much easier digital art is. And I know that young people get very upset when you say digital art is easier, but that's why it exists, because if it wasn't easier, no one would be doing it, including me.
Harold: Well, in a future episode, I'm going to share a guy from 1989’s predictions of where comics were going to go. And that includes some of these things. Look forward to that.
August 7. It's a Sunday, and, ah, Sally is upset. In her nightgown she says, the world hates me. I mean, how can I go on living?
Jimmy: That's pretty extreme.
Michael: Yeah.
She's so upset, she slumps in an easing chair, and, her brother comes over to comfort her. She says, and everything is hopeless and my life is ruined. Charlie Brown says, I know how you feel, but remember, tomorrow is another day. As, she walks back to her room, he follows her saying, it's like what grandpa always says. Go to sleep. And when you wake up, it'll be a new day and everything will be alright. So Sally goes to sleep, wakes up, looks outside and then goes to Charlie Brown's room and screams, it's 530, and it's a new day and everything isn't all right. And in the last panel, this sense of Charlie Brown flying. He is now at the base of his bed on the ground and he says, I, have a feeling grandpa never gets up before noon.
Jimmy: Way to, go grandpa. Team grandpa.
Michael: No, but I think there's some genetic thing going on with his family.
Michael: The parents need to be checked. They're both seriously depressed kids.
Jimmy: Yeah. No, I mean, that is, that is like, how can I go on living? Yeah, it's very sad, actually. If you just think about that, you see Sally and you love Sally as a character, and then you look at that little, you know, drawing and there's something about the fact that she's in her jammies, she's got no shoes on. It's like very vulnerable. Like, it feels like this must be a real panic attack because, the middle of the night and, you know, the only person she can talk to is her brother.
Harold: And that second to last panel with her, with the gigantic mouth and the nose to the sky, that makes me think of like 20 years earlier in the strip. You know, there's something, something about this that just takes me back there. This is a really strong strip for sure.
Jimmy: Really, really good. And, then we end with this anomaly.
August 9. Charlie Brown and Sally, are sitting on the couch again. So we're ending as we began this episode, and Charlie Brown reads another book to her. And it says, Thomas Hardy once saw, in quotes, a handsome maid with large, innocent eyes riding in a cart. She was obviously very poor, which made Hardy wonder what her beauty was lead to. And Sally answers four wheel drive pickup commercials.
Jimmy: which is, by the way, a very eighties punchline. You know, a couple of things. First off, I think that's a good looking drawing. I think that couch looks great. I love the upholstery, all that. I love the little candelabra. Weird to have in a 1988 suburban living room. But here's my question. Do you think that lettering was shrunk down? That's a lot of words in that panel with Charlie Brown. And he either crammed it all in. I mean, I don't think he did. I think that's. I think that was lettered separately and shrunk down on a photocopier. But I could be wrong.
Harold: I don't think so. Because the thickness the letters match, the larger lettering for Sally's line. So I would guess he had. He did it on the paper because otherwise it would look thinner if he used the same pen. Anyway, that's. That's my take on.
Jimmy: I don't know. That would be really. I mean, I believe you. You're probably right. You know, if he's working bigger.
Harold: He's working bigger now, too.
Jimmy: Well, if you're out there betting, bet with Harold, he will know more than me. But I still. I'm gonna go to my grave saying that. Unless. Unless Benjamin Clark could tell us differently. Jangly black on the left.
Michael: I don't know anything about lettering, but my question is, what book is he reading? Thomas Hardy. It's a book about Thomas Hardy.
Jimmy: Yeah. He's reading a book about Thomas.
Michael: He's eight years old. Who's reading a book about Thomas Hardy at eight years old?
Jimmy: Charlie Brown.
Harold: Well, remember Sally has been. Sally's been assigned to read Tessof the D’Urbervilles for the summer. And she wants to see the movie, hoping it's going to come on so she doesn't have to read the book. And, so now Charlie Brown is reading stuff to her about this guy for her report. So maybe, maybe this is the cliff notes and she won't even read the Cliff notes and she's asking Charlie Brown to read the Cliff notes to her.
Jimmy: I think that's a really weird quote to pull because, I mean, Hardy wondered what her beauty would lead to. I think I know what Hardy is thinking about and I think that's a weird, like, how do you make money with your beauty? back in those days, right. It's a weird thing to see in a Peanuts strip, but the four wheel drive pickup commercials cracks me up. The use of zipatone, I think, is really nice. I think that.
Harold: What happened to the, after the lava lamp broke down, they got some, some candles.
Michael: Well.
Liz: And a completely different couch.
Jimmy: Yeah, that's a very nice.
Michael: Not an Ektorp.
Harold: No. They went over to get a Broyhill or something.
Jimmy: I think this is a real couch. And I love that drink. I love the penwork on it like it's, you know, tremor, schmemor. Check out those zippy lines on the arms of the couch.
Jimmy: Whip Whip, whip. Love it. It's so satisfying to ink with a pen like that when you have it going well, which, happened to me once, I think, in 1991.
Harold: He looks like he was burning through this strip. I mean, he went, he did this super fast. And that's the feeling you get. He used to say, you know, when I get an idea I like, I just gotta get it out of me as fast as I can get it out of me. I think that's a really healthy thing for a cartoonist who's got a daily deadline.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: Versus like, oh, I have to get every line right. I had to redo it seven times. Get it just the way I want it.
Jimmy: Right. And, you know, the funny thing is, I went through a period in these years casting around before I came up with this Idea to do the substack thing. And, you know, you're changing this, you're changing that. It always looks like you. You know what I mean? There's almost nothing you can, can do that won't make it look like you.
Harold: It's your signature. Yeah.
Jimmy: Yeah. Well, guys, that brings us to the end of the strips. We picked, for this week. I thought it was a fun episode. I love getting to talk to my pals, and I love hanging out with you guys. if you want to keep that conversation going, we would love to hear from you. Email us unpackingpeanuts@gmail.com. or you can follow the show. Or unpackpeanuts on Instagram and Threads and unpackingpeanuts on Facebook, blue sky and YouTube. And of course, you can always call or, write to our hotline. And that number is 717-219-4162 and remember, when I don't hear, I worry about you. So that's it for this week. Come back next week where we wrap up 1988. Until then, from Michael, Harold, and Liz, this is Jimmy saying, be of good cheer.
MH&L Yes, yes, yes. Be of good cheer.
VO: Unpacking Peanuts is copyright Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen and Harold Buchholz produced and edited by Liz Sumner Music by Michael Cohen additional voiceover by Aziza Shukrala Clark. For more from the show, follow unpack Peanuts on Instagram and Threads. Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue sky and YouTube. For more about Jimmy, Michael and Harold, visit unpackingPeanutss.com. have a wonderful day, and thanks for listening.
Michael: Waiting for cactus.
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