Jimmy: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. This is Unpacking Peanuts, the show where three cartoonists and the producer that they somehow hoodwinked into going along with it follow the works of Charles M. Schulz from 1950 all the way through to 2000. I'll be your host for the proceedings. My name is Jimmy Gownley, and guess what? I'm also a cartoonist. I've done things like Amelia rules, seven good reasons not to grow up, and the Dumbest Idea ever. And guess what? You can read my new comic, Tanner Rocks on my sub stack, gvillecomics.
And joining me, as always, are my pals, co hosts, and fellow cartoonists. He's a playwright and a composer, both for the band complicated people, as well as for this very podcast. He's the co creator of the original comic Book Price Guide, the original editor of Amelia Rules, and the current creator of such great strips as Tangled River, A Gathering of Spells, and the soon to be completed Strange Attractors. It's Michael Cohen.
Michael: Say hey.
Jimmy: And he's the executive producer and writer of mystery science Theater 3000, a former vice president of Archie comics, and the creator of the Instagram sensation Sweetest Beasts, HaroldBuchholz.
Harold: Hello.
Jimmy: Well, guys, we have made it to the end of the penultimate decade of Peanuts, and I just have to say, this has been an unbelievably fun journey for me. It's been just a, sheer pleasure to just be, ensconced in all this great cartooning by my favorite cartoonist. What are you guys thinking at this point in our little journey? Harold, why don't you go first? Where are you at, Schulz wise?
Harold: Well, first off, thank you guys, for being a part of this and making this happen. There's so much that goes into making this podcast, and to do it with you guys has been incredibly special. We talked about this. Doing this years ago, had a little bit of a false start, and then, thanks to Liz, we came back, and, Jimmy, you made it happen. It really has been special to focus on one thing, with three other people on this regular basis, something that I love so much. It's been, just a steady part of my life for these past few years, and I treasure it. And being able to experience with other people something that has affected you, you know, it's affected your life.
You know, I'm a cartoonist in large part because of Charles Schulz yeah, that's deeply meaningful. And to be able to understand the thing that affected you is a little bit better every week, I think helps me as I go forward, since that influence is there. And to understand that influence, I think, is actually very empowering.
Jimmy: Well, absolutely. I agree with all of that. Michael, I have to say I am so grateful that you chose to be a part of this, because when I had the idea to do this podcast, it was, I want to talk about Peanuts with Michael and Harold. It wasn't that I wanted to talk about Peanuts, but I knew that you had, stopped around 1970, and I had to do some convincing to get you to go all the way through to, the end. But I am just so thrilled, that you're doing it. And I'm glad that if nothing else in my life, I accomplish. I got you to like Woodstock, and that is all that matters. So what do you have to say for yourself as we've gone through four decades now?
Michael: Well, I'm finding the strip less interesting, but I'm always amazed when we actually get down to recording, you know, these 1980, strips, that we're still finding a lot to talk about. A lot that's worth talking about. It's still-- the creative process is worth analyzing. And, you know, between the three of us, we certainly come up with a lot of crazy theories on what's going on in Schulz's head. So I keep thinking, like, well, this won't be very good because I didn't think the strips were particularly funny. But, you know, taking even the fact that, you know, the Peanuts is not at its peak and is going in certain directions that I don't particularly like that even the fact that that is interesting.
Jimmy: Yes.
Michael: And worth analyzing, because certainly, I don't know how many people have stuck with one thing for 40 years, but I think anyone who has done it, you expect there to be at least a simplification, and that seems to be the case with Schulz. So, you know, pondering why? Because I spend time thinking about why do the, you know, the songwriters and artists I love, their later work is just not the same. And wondering why that happens, I think is a topic worth exploring.
Harold: I think it's fascinating that we've gone through 40 years of Schulz and now two of us, you know, Michael, you and Jimmy are revisiting work that you long ago, and I don't think that's a coincidence.
Jimmy: Oh, I don't either.
Michael: Schulz didn't have the option. I mean, he could have. He could have gone back and redone the Peanuts comic, the longer form work he did. Yeah he didn't seem to-- He just was determined to keep pumping ‘em out one a day for as long as he could.
Jimmy: It's an insane amount of work. It really is, you know, and what Harold said, I do think there's some truth to that. And I find that my stuff that I'm doing in the Tanner Rocks comic now really is impacted by the things we talk about on the show, all the time. You know, even sometimes I'll find myself saying, oh, you told people not to do this, like, four episodes ago. And then I'm like, shut up. We have a deadline. But it really is fascinating, and I think it's.
There is something to be said about what both of you said, that it's one person over a long period of time, because that's actually what every individual artist's career is, whether you're working on one project or you're working on, several different projects. But it's you over a period of time, you're changing, you're growing, you're getting better, you're getting worse, you feel good, you feel bad. So it's really, rather than just read a bunch of comics and see what, you know, this is Jack Kirby at his peak, and this is, you know, Steve Ditko at his peak or whatever, I think it is interesting to see the ebbs and flows, and what Michael calls streakiness. You know, I'm really interested in seeing how that happens. How, like, oh, here's three weeks where every one works, but the week before didn't, you know, why is that?
Michael: No, that's fascinating. Yeah. And also the artist's opinion of their own work.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: Now, this may be the stuff we're not satisfied with. Schulz was thinking, that's his best stuff. Now, I don't know, because I haven't delved into reading about what, you know, his--what he thought was his best work. It's possible he's-- This is clicking with him. Like, this is what, he was striving for.
Jimmy: Yeah. I mean, and there's no way to. Well, okay, let me ask you that, guys. This. What do you think about the thought, you know, in, like, literary classes and literary literature theory for the last, I don't know, 50, 60, 70 years, this idea of the death of the author, the author's intention, doesn't matter. I understand that because 400 years from now, you won't have the author to ask questions and stuff like that, but it is interesting, especially when you're studying something this deeply to, like, check out some back sources. Harold has his little history reports and stuff like that. And I can't help but think even if we maybe disagree with the intention or we don't see, the intention the artist had fulfilled and maybe the way the artist did, I still think it's super interesting to see, to know what the artist was trying to do, why they're trying to do it, and see if that worked on me.
Harold: Yeah. I think the death of the author is greatly exaggerated.
Jimmy: Yeah. Don't you think?
Michael: Well, he's, I mean, Schulz is an interesting case because clearly money was no longer.
Jimmy: Right.
Michael: A factor in his work. And most artists, especially, you know, trends come and trends go. At some point, they're out of fashion. And, you know, great graphic artists, you know, had trouble finding work later on in their career because people didn't like that style anymore. Schulz wasn't dealing with it.
Jimmy: I mean, in the seventies, they called Jack Kirby Jack the hack.
Michael: Yeah. I mean, mind boggling stuff. And, you know, one of the all time greats, Steve Rude, never found anything that was really popular. I mean, he could have been the greatest, one of the greatest comic book artists. But, either his style was not what people were looking for, especially in the nineties.
Jimmy: Nineties.
Michael: you know, I consider it, you know, one of the high points of comic art, but it was just the complete opposite of what was selling at Marvel. Okay. Schulz was completely divorced from those kind of concerns. And really, he could have done whatever he wanted.
Jimmy: Right.
Michael: And not have to worry about feeding his family.
Jimmy: Right.
Michael: So we have to assume that either this was what he wanted or he was feeling it was a lot of work and he wanted to cut down on the work.
Harold: Yeah. I'm just thinking about what you guys are saying and thinking about the nature of comic books, which would generally come out monthly, bimonthly, and you would move artists around often from title to title. And you, like you said, could go in and out of fashion. What other medium for a singular artist, let alone a group artist, are you given access to millions upon millions of people every day.
Jimmy: Uh-huh.
Harold: And you get to do it for 50 years, unbroken I can think of.
Michael: Johnny Carson. That's about it.
Harold: Yeah. And how many years was that?
Jimmy: 30 something, 35,
Harold: which was remarkable. And maybe people who are followed on other today or good Morning America was that long
Jimmy: David Letterman.
Harold: Yeah. Or the Sunday show on CBS and the news side of things for an artist where else, in, like, the history of art, has somebody had a consistent piece of art that they have to renew every day that reaches an audience? And we're saying, you know, maybe this is beyond Schulz's cultural impact, or maybe the cultural impact is there, and he's just living inside of it. And so we don't see it because it's not breaking anything new. He's still there. Millions and millions of people seeing it every single day at this point.
Jimmy: Yeah, yeah. And I often wonder, I'm certain that he felt some sort of responsibility, towards those readers, that he felt he had to have that new thing there and it had to be his work at this period in his life. In interviews, one of the things he would say that really bothered him when he would meet people is if they'd say, oh, are you still doing the strip? And he'd be like, well, who the hell else is? I'm sure he didn't say, hell. Who else do you think is doing this trip? And of course, a sane person would think, well, some assistance, because you're really rich and should be not sitting over an art desk every day. But he was. That wasn't the guy he was, you know, it just wasn't. And it's. And that alone makes it super interesting and worth doing.
Michael: Yeah. We haven't really talked much about the actual 1980s. What makes them different than the seventies? I don't have a great memory for these kind of things. and actually, I don't believe in decades.
Jimmy: Okay.
Michael: So it all kind of blurs together. But I'd be curious to hear what if you just randomly, one of these strips popped up? Would you know if it was a seventies strip or an eighties strip?
Jimmy: I think I would, yeah.
Michael: at this point, just from the art style.
Jimmy: Yeah. Well, first off. First off, I'd be able to tell if it was not four panels. That's a huge.
Michael: That only happened in the last two years.
Jimmy: Yeah. When did the zipatone come in? I mean, I don't think I'd be able to tell, like, 1980 versus 1977. But once the decade gets rolling, I'd be able to tell.
Michael: Okay.
Jimmy: Because first off, it's 90% Lucy gardening in the eighties, right? I swore if I had to take it, someone had a gun to my head and said, the world will end if you don't tell me how many Lucy gardening strips there were in the eighties. I'd say, oh, about 105. Yeah.
Harold: All in one week.
Michael: Well, let's say the Schulz museum found a lost strip. And somehow it got lost in the mail or some, at some point in his career. Never reached the syndicate. They found it.
Harold: The bureau drawer. Yeah.
Michael: Could we look at that strip and tell what, what the date was roughly?
Jimmy: I bet we'd get pretty darn close. Yeah, I do.
Harold: Yeah.
Jimmy: I think when I, when my friend Rich, sent me that picture and said, hey, when was Snoopy friends with bunnies? And in ten minutes or less, I found the exact panel, I was like, oh, it's possible we went in this a little too deep.
Harold: One other thing I wanted to mention around this time we're at the end of the eighties, is we've been mentioning very often Rheta Grimsley Johnson's Good Grief biography of Schulz that came out at the very end of 1989. I've gone into my editor and publisher archives and was looking and saw that it was published on October 12, 1989, and that Schulz, did a 20 city satellite media tour with her to promote it. So he was obviously super supportive of what she did with that biography, which speaks a lot as to what that biography is and, how much he respected Johnson and what came out of it.
Jimmy: Yeah, that book is special. I think, in a lot of ways. I think some people, maybe were disappointed because they wanted something more like the David Michaelis Schulz and Peanuts book, an unauthorized sort of, you know, warts and all telling or whatever. But I think what Johnson manages to do, because she spent so much time with the guy and, you know, interviewed him so much and had the full support, she was able to really show what his daily life was like. You know, going around, giving cookies, dog treats to the dogs that would bark with him on his way, barking him on his way to the studio, you know, the lunch at the warm puppy, him reflecting on his childhood stories. So she was able to have this real, intimate look at his life. It was different than if just a writer or an academic who studied old interviews and tried to piece something together. You know, it was very much reporting in the moment, and it gives a really idyllic picture of life in Santa Rosa at this period of time. that would make you just want to be a cartoon like Charles Schulz. I think it's a really good book. I recommend it to everybody.
Harold: And she didn't sugarcoat it either. We learned things about him that, that generally weren't known, that he was a bit of a. I guess he was a little agoraphobic.
Jimmy: Yep. Yeah, it's, it's definitely worth reading. I would pick that as my, if you want to do a little side reading for this podcast, especially at this period. It's a great thing.
So, Liz, my question to you is-- first off, this show would not happen, if you hadn't said, would you guys consider trying it again, if I produce and edit it.
Liz: Actually, what I said was, I have this idea. Would you--? And you said, YES!
Jimmy: That’s right. Yes, I did. That's true. I didn't finish it. So, my question to you is now, after 120 episodes, how much do you regret that?
Liz: Not a bit. Not one bit. I wanted to be. I think I've said this before. I loved the concept. I was heartbroken when you had your false start and the early episodes never took place.
Jimmy: Yeah, we're not sure what happened to those episodes. But...
Liz: Anyhow, I wanted to be part of a team. I love being part of this team. I particularly like the fact that I have been welcomed to be more on the air. And I even gave myself a microphone.
Jimmy: Ooh.
Liz: Yeah. And I have noticed as I'm editing, that I have some very strange sounding laughter. I mean, I cackle. I sort of wheeze. There's a lot of different versions of my laughter in the background.
Jimmy: Oh, that's, you know what, having to listen to yourself is painful. Laughter is hard, too. For me. My, my problem with my laugh is when I'm really where I really think something's funny, a lot of times I'm not laughing and I'm just laughing, but you can't hear it. But then I think, oh, it's a podcast, so don't do that. Oh, man. Well, yeah, I'm glad. I'm so glad, that you feel that way, because the show wouldn't exist without you. This has been, just absolute, absolute pleasure for me from beginning to end.
So, listen, how about this? We're going to take a break a little bit on the earlier side this time. then we're going to come back, I'm going to answer the mail, and then we're going to do a little thing Michael cooked up where we're going to compare characters, from seventies characters from the eighties, see where they've changed, how they've changed, and, what we think of those changes. So, meet us on the other side.
BREAK
VO: Hi, everyone. Have you seen the latest anger and happiness index? Have you admired the photo of Jimmy as Luke Skywalker? Or read the details of how Michael co created the first comic book price guide? Just about every little known subject we mention is referenced on the Unpacking Peanuts website Peanuts obscurities are explained further and other stories are expanded more than you ever wanted to know, from Albert Payson Terhune to zipatone, Annette Funicello to zorba the Greek. Check it all out@unpackingpeanuts.com/obscurities.
Jimmy: And we're back. So I'm hanging out in the mailbox. Liz, have we got anything?
Liz: We do. We got a letter from John Merullo, who writes the July 10, 1989 strip with Linus stating that vanilla should be on the bottom of an ice cream cone. I that also has chocolate. Sally apparently has the same opinion. In the July 20, 1962 strip, she asks, Charlie Brown to bring her an ice cream cone with chocolate on the top and vanilla on the bottom. She says it makes all the difference in the world. If the vanilla is on the bottom, it leaves a better aftertaste.
Jimmy: Soulmate
Liz: Charlie Brown then states, little did I know that right within our family, we'd have a connoisseur of ice cream cones.
Jimmy: Wow. Well, that's, insane that you noticed that. And I have to say, bravo.
Harold: Kudos.
Jimmy: That's amazing. See, they're soul mates. It's meant to be. And they're both right. Vanilla is the better lingering flavor.
Liz: He adds that the 1962 strip is also notable for ice cream and aftertaste being hyphenated. It's also one of the very few times that Sally addresses her brother as Charlie Brown. Having a family member use his surname feels awkward. So Sally soon came to address him as big brother.
Jimmy: Big brother. Yeah, she does. She'll say Charlie Brown. I think she says it in the, Christmas special, even. yeah, it always does kind of crack, actually. Kind of cracks me up that she calls him Charlie Brown, but I like the girl.
Harold: Yeah, she started using big brother around 1984. I'm just kidding.
Jimmy: well, checking out the hyphenation puts you in Harold Buchholz category, I am sorry to say. There's no treatment for that.
Harold: No, I'm sorry. You have to live with it.
Liz: And Sarah Wilson writes, hi again. Just a quick note. If the whole unpacking Peanuts team does, as promised, visit Japan-- I don't remember promising that.
Harold: Did someone promise to pay our way?
Liz: Then you must also visit the pizzeria in the attached photo, (which I'll put on social media), which is decoratively devoted to exactly two things, Peanuts and the Beatles. I mean It's like they've been waiting for you all this time.
Jimmy: no way.
Harold: Wow.
Liz: I think we should do an ad for that pizzeria.
Jimmy: We gotta do an ad for that pizza place. That's amazing. Well, now we are promising to go to Japan. That's it.
Liz: And, Tim Young writes and says, I want to see a tv special about Snoopy going by the name Charlie Brown at camp. We could call it. It's identity theft Charlie Brown.
Harold: That could happen.
Jimmy: That would be a really. You could do a really good episode. Somebody came and repossessed my mitt. They're not. Snoopy's eyes are, like, rolling up. Oh, man.
Harold: They're coming after Charlie Brown. Cause he's pretending he's a lawyer.
Jimmy: Oh, that's funny.
Liz: So that's it for the mail.
Jimmy: Well, that is great. I mean, first off, thank you all for writing. I really appreciate it. if you guys want to keep this conversation going, there's, of course, a couple different ways you can do it. The first thing we would love for you to do is just go over to unpackingpeanuts.com, and then you can sign up for the great Peanuts reread. And that will give you one email a month where we let you know what we're discussing. so you can read it ahead of time, and you could just read for free at gocomics.com. or buy one of the Fantagraphics books. All kinds of options for you. You could also reach out to us on social media. We're unpackpeanuts on Instagram and Threads and unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, blue sky, and YouTube. So we would love to hear from you, because remember, when I don't hear, I worry.
Liz: But what about the hotline?
Jimmy: Nothing on the hotline.
Liz: Well, what about the number for the hotline?
Jimmy: Well, that might be why there's nothing on the hotline. You can also call us on the hotline or text us at the hotline. 717-219-4162 and also, we have some kind of fun news, some excitement. We just found out about ourselves. Harold, why don't you, let the listeners in?
Harold: Yeah, it's always a delight to see a, particular bump in the listenership. And the Guardian coming out of the UK listed us this past week in their, picks of the week. there's a section called, there's a podcast for that where Graeme Virtue chooses five of the best podcasts on comic book culture. And we are the sole number one listed here of these that is not Marvel or DC.
Liz: Wow.
Harold: Kind of cool to see our listing. yeah, he has really nice things. He calls it a delightful series. And, yeah, it calls us a veteran trio. And their producer is Liz Sumner
Michael: Veterans. Let's talk war stories. So where were you in Nam Jimmy?
Jimmy: Watching, Sesame street.
Harold: So thank you to Graeme and the Guardian for singling us out. That's really special. And a lot of people have found us through you, so we're very happy about that. And welcome to any new listeners who may have come to us through that.
Jimmy: Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's been so fun for us. And the fact that more people are coming on all the time is just great. And, I secretly like the egotistical, maniac, monomaniacal part, of my brain. Just the thought that people might be binging. Oh, I love that. Oh, man.
Harold: Yeah.
Jimmy: So that's great. Thank you, Harold, and thank you to the Guardian. That's so cool.
Michael, you want to take us out here? What's your plan here for the finale? How are we going to end this thing?
Michael: This isn't a plan, but it's kind of a concept of a plan.
Harold: It's the inkling of a concept.
Jimmy: We have a notion of an idea of a concept.
Michael: Well, no, I was just thinking a little hazy on what we were going to be talking about because we don't have actual strips in front of us. but I thought, okay, how about we delve into the characters, who are currently featured in the strip. So I think what we're going to do is talk about these characters and our impression of how they're evolving, how they've changed since the seventies. We're only talking about the eighties. We're not going to go further than that.
Harold: Right.
Michael: And, if we think Schulz is doing justice to them or he's ignoring them, or they're, they're becoming more and more popular. Anyway, so basically it just turned out I've got three columns. One it would be the old guard, and these are the main characters from the fifties who are still around. And that'd be Charlie Brown, Lucy, Linus, Snoopy and Schroeder. And then the second column would be characters who were introduced in the sixties and maybe, maybe a little earlier. Sally, Peppermint Patty, Marcie and Woodstock. And then third column, characters introduced in the seventies and eighties. Franklin, Rerun, Lydia, Spike and Olaf. And characters who hardly ever show up at all. I have pigpen here, but also we've seen Violet in one or two strips
Jimmy: and Patty.
Michael: Yeah, but they're not really players anymore. So anyway, we basically have these 14 characters. So let's just go round the horn and discuss. and let's start with Charlie Brown. Jimmy.
Jimmy: All right. Who should go first?
Michael: You go first.
Jimmy: Oh, no. well, I would say in some ways, obviously, in some ways, all of the original cast's role is diminished because just by math, you add more characters, they're gonna take time, panel time, away from some of the other characters. But I don't think that hampers Schulz too much because, the personalities of those main characters are so ingrained in just humanity's mind at this point that he's able to kind of use shorthand sometime. And I think. But I think the major thing I would say from Charlie Brown is even though he's still, a loser and he's. He's still fretting and he's wishy washy and that sort of stuff, he's also calmer. He's also, I think, more of a mature presence. He's, you know, I think the big brother aspect of Charlie Brown and Sally is one of the highlights of the strip that really grows over the course of the time. Especially you know, especially in the, like, late seventies or the seventies and eighties. But I think in general, I would say because we're not taking the long stories as much as we used to anymore and because of the diversity of the other cast, just the fact that there are so many of them, I think Charlie Brown is. He's still the center, but he's a slightly less white hot center, you know, if that makes sense.
Michael: That's it. Okay. Harold.
Harold: Yeah. Charlie Brown has come to a day to day peace with himself. It seems like in the 1980s he is more, just living his life quietly. He's a voice of reason that actually gets to be a voice of reason without being torn down because of Sally in particular. I think I'm happy for Charlie Brown. You know, this is a part of Peanuts that Michael and I haven't really fully experienced by any stretch. So I kind of knew this was where Schulz was because I would keep up with the strip, but not on a regular daily basis. But to see that, Charlie Brown, who has struggled as a character, has been just consistently depressed and frustrated and constantly being shown up by the people around him and his self delusions and, you know, that's not gone. And a lot of it's on the baseball field still. But I'm really happy that he has grown. It's so funny, you know, he's lived for 40 years with us, but he's only --
Jimmy: Right.
Harold: But we've seen him over 40 years develop as a character. And I guess in some ways you could say that's a less interesting character. Except, like you said, jimmy, we have this history with him. We have these shortcuts that we use because the whole strip is a shortcut. You know, it's this little haiku every day of comics. Charlie Brown is everything we've experienced up until now. And it's like, I feel like I'm happy that he's given, this kind of level of dignity in a certain part of who he is, that he fits in. He does fit in. He is a good big brother. And, to see that in him after lots of years of just ongoing frustration is really special.
Jimmy: Excellent. Michael, what do you think?
Michael: Well, I mean, it's definitely consistent. he has shifted over from basically like the archetypical loser to more of a rounded character. I mean, the fact that two of the girls are in love with him, he doesn't seem to like it. Doesn't seem to like to respond. He doesn't seem to, respond to that. He wants to run away from that. But that wouldn't have happened in the fifties or sixties, I don't think. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of the everyman character.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: You know, in the center of the strip, but really not the funniest, not the smartest. Yeah. And, you know, he still has, the, loser aspects, but, yeah, like Harold said, there's more to do with, you know, baseball and kite flying.
Jimmy: Right.
Michael: And it's, you know, his, his always his complaint, about having no friends doesn't even make sense anymore.
Jimmy: Right.
Michael: Because clearly it is a group and he has lots of friends.
Jimmy: Yeah. Yeah. This is absolutely true.
Michael: Yeah. Okay. That's all I can think of for Charlie. Chuck, let's go to Lucy.
Jimmy: Well, Lucy, I think she's obviously mellowed quite a bit. But I think the number one thing that has changed about Lucy is, of course, the corduroy pants. I think the problem was she was in that dress with the big puffy skirt and the bow and she just, you know, she felt constrained and she was angry all the time. Now she's got some casual corduroys and a sweatshirt. She's a lot mellower. So I think Lucy's journey is mostly fashion based. What do you think, Harold?
Harold: yeah, I agree. She, too, is mellowed. Like, pretty much every character has mellowed. well, with maybe a few exceptions, which we'll get to. I like that Lucy is kind of settled into herself in the strip as well. I like that she is still who she is, but she's not swinging as hard. And, you know, Since I love all the characters, I'm a little happy for the other characters. That's. That's true.
Jimmy: That's right.
Harold: After. After 40 years, you. It's a little break is not, not bad. And also, that Lucy. Lucy is intimidating. I mean, I read the strip as a little kid when I was dealing with being in a family with a big sister, and I had my issues with her, and I was struggling with my role as the youngest in that family like Linus did. And I remember it really being helpful to me to read those trips and seeing that there was a Linus out there and that he had a big sister much tougher to deal with than my sister. My sister was generally just great with me, but to see that and to see how he would navigate that relationship with Lucy was really helpful. They seem like they're more in kind of a deadlock now. It's like the old couple that's been married for a long time, and they snipe at each other, which, you know, isn't. It's got a little bit more of that feel than two, young kids who are constantly finding fresh ways to torture each other. It's a little bit more mellow. It's still there, but, it doesn't have the edge that it used to have. And I'm actually okay with that because we do have the other strips where that was front and center.
Jimmy: Don't you think? Oh, maybe this is a little off, but don't you think it is strange that they never really explore the relationship between Linus, Lucy and Rerun at this point?
Harold: Strange.
Jimmy: You would think. I mean, I think back to Linus being taught all that stuff from Lucy, all that nonsensical stuff, and it seems like doing something like Rerun, I mean, even with the name in it, it would give him the opportunity to do more of those things. Yeah, but he just does it sounds.
Michael: Like you've mentioned that, the nineties Rerun comes to the fore.
Jimmy: Well, yeah, I did a little research on that. And Rerun, is a hundred in 145 strips, about. Okay. And 90 of them take place after 1995.
Liz: Wow.
Michael: Really? Wow.
Jimmy: So he's basically, he's. He's one of the main characters of the last five years. And, when I, you know, name drop. When I got to talk to Jeannie years ago, Jeannie Schulz, she said she thinks
Liz: Wife of Charles Schulz,
Jimmy: whatever. We talk to people like this all the time here. We were reviewed in the Guardian, for god's sake. She felt it was that Schulz had something to do. It had something to do with Charles Schulz connecting with his grandchildren. Totally spending time with the grandchildren. And that inspired Rerun.
Michael: Okay, well, we'll get to Rerun in the next column. So we're. So we're back to Lucy. Yeah, she's mellowed. She's at her best, though, when she's throwing some nasty, sarcastic remarks at people.
Jimmy: and still has that.
Michael: Yes. She still comes up with some doozies. So I appreciate that. And the booth is, psychiatric booth is maintained its presence. one thing I noticed coming into 1990 is the, I'm not seeing any Lucy and Schroeder piano strips. And I think there was just one in 1989. So that was, that was a regular for her. I mean, she had a few regular slots. and that was one the Lucy Schroeder show. And he's. In the eighties, he started using her a lot as the worst baseball player in the world, the right fielder. I don't. I can't remember there being a lot of those, but it seems like that's. That's one of his standard baseball gags.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: So I think she is maintaining a pretty strong presence. but it's definitely not as horrible a person as she used to be.
Liz: Because of all that gardening.
Jimmy: Yeah, that's what it is. You know, the gardening and the corduroy pants will keep you in check.
Michael: Yeah. Okay, let's move on to Linus.
Jimmy: Linus has, been used a lot less, certainly than he was in those early days. I think mostly, though, he's stayed true to himself. I don't see that there's. There's frankly, too much difference about the character of Linus. Just that he probably appears less. That's my take.
Harold: Yeah, I think there's a good through line for Linus. He. Yeah, there is something different, though, and it's hard to put my finger on it. Michael, maybe you got some insights on this, but I think. Well, I guess like everybody else, some of the edges is. Is gone. I'm super, super grateful that he found Lydia, toward the end of this decade, because it brought out some of those more neurotic elements of him. M and just layers of personality in him that had been kind of removed from the strip or just not seen as often or repeats of things we'd seen before. This was fresh. And we're 38 years or whatever into the strip when this starts to happen. And I don't know if we see her in the nineties, that's going to be interesting to see if he still has a lot going on inside there. And I was really happy to see this late into the strip, a new character unlocking parts of him that we hadn't seen at all before. And in some cases we'd seen before, but really hadn't had that intensity before. And, you know, everybody, we talk about unrequited love in this strip. You know, there's this strange. Everybody's loving somebody else who's not loving them back. I mean, that's the nature of the strip in so many ways. You know, the closest love, if you use love broadly that we have in, the strip that is, is required. It's a friendship. love is the Woodstock. But to see Linus get in the mix on this, with Lydia, I thought was really special this decade.
Jimmy: Yeah, Lydia is a great Idea, a great character. I mean, it makes such a good schtick. And it's a variation, kind of on the Schroeder Lucy thing in that they're always going to be in the same position. and the thing is, she's always going to find some way to vex Linus. And, he just plays out variation and variation on that. And it's great. It's really good.
Michael: Okay, well, we'll get to Lydia in the next column.
Liz: And your thoughts on Linus?
Michael: My thoughts on Linus? Yeah, this is. To me, this is really puzzling. he was by far my favorite character in the first couple of decades. The most complex character in, modern american literature.
Liz: You said western.
Michael: Well, modern America.
Liz: Okay.
Michael: And the UK because of the Guardian. Then, it seemed to me in the seventies, Schulz didn't know what to do with him. He was kind of relegated to the sidelines. Part of his shtick in the seventies was he was able to give up the blanket, which was kind of the whole key to his personality. And so we had a blanket free Linus roaming around for a while, but he didn't have much to do. And, I don't remember too many strips where he was the focus of it. And then we get to the eighties and the blanket comes back. So I think Schulz realized that was really the key to understanding Linus is not only was he a wild eyed fanatic who, you know, believed all kinds of crazy things, but he was totally insecure. Even though he acts like, he knows more than everybody else. So, we're seeing more of him. And, yeah, I think the Lydia storylines bring him out. Bring, bring him out the best. I can't think of too much, that he's done in the last decade that is really noticeable. So I think he's kind of holding his own and maybe dropping down a little bit. He's a little less important.
Jimmy: I wonder, you know, about what that is with Schulz is that, I mean, you know, I often think, what's beyond Sergeant Pepper with the Beatles? And maybe because they didn't go that way, right, they did magical mystery tour and then turned a different way. And maybe the answer is, nothing's beyond it, and that's why you have to turn away. So maybe, like, all the line of stuff, as brilliant as it is, gave him x amount of strips, and that's just, that's all there are, you know, like, if you. I, don't know if he sensed that if I go back to this well again, it's gonna start curdling. Things aren't.
Michael: But he does go back to the well constantly. in the eighties, a lot of old strips get revived. But then again, I mean, think about this. All,Peanuts is is characters.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: I mean, there's no plot, there's no through line. There's no. It's not world building, it's characters, right? And he's jettisoned a bunch of them, and he's brought in some new ones, and he stuck with his main cast. I mean, they've never gone away. But I think he's kind of gets bored with some of them. I think he got bored with Linus for a while.
Jimmy: Interesting.
Harold: I pretty much agree with you, Michael, on all of that. I feel like we have all dealt with art, that over a period of years, ourselves with characters as we change and grow. I think how we relate to those characters, even if we wrote it, you know, years ago and we're rereading it, people are not 100% the same, and we're all processing things at different stages of our lives. And it did seem like there was something in Linus that didn't become as relevant to Schulz in the early eighties, but he found a fresh way to engage with Linus, like I was saying with Lydia, for example, that I really appreciate. So, yeah, it seemed like whatever he was using in Linus to process, something was resolved in his life or replaced or whatever. And so Linus, is not maybe processing that for him as much. And I. The new version of Schulz. As he's growing and changing as a person and the people around him that he's dealing with are different and at different stages of their lives. It looks like Linus, is. Some of that stuff was definitely temporal for him and it's not something he's processing now.
Jimmy: Yeah, that's really interesting. The other thing I think is that Linus was the mouthpiece for his philosophy and his spirituality and a lot of stuff like that. And one thing that I do feel Schulz had a real good sense of is that he didn't want to. Well, I know that this for a fact. In interviews, he said he never wanted to feel old. You know, and I think when you're talking about weighty, like really weighty, philosophical, important issues when you're young, it's one thing, because you're exploring it. When you're older, you've sort of figured out, at least for yourself, maybe what these things are, where they are. And I think Schulz somehow intuited that I could become didactic, because I think someone like, Johnny Hart got in some controversy and stuff for, some of his religious strips towards the end of his career. Not because Johnny Hart was a bigot or because Johnny Hart was whatever, but because he was old and well, ..
Harold: You’ve lived enough life that you, you come to some conclusions.
Jimmy: some conclusions.
Harold: You know, it's not just, hey, I'm going to explore everything and look at every possibility. And that's my philosophy, is to look at everything and never come down on anything. Every. You know, a lot of people do wind up saying, you know, I've been uncertain about this, but I think this is, this is where I'm finding meaning. Yeah, but it's interesting to see you're saying that Schulz was super, super, careful.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: About, trying to come down on any one thing, and say, this is the way it is. That was not his personality.
Jimmy: Right.
Michael: Moving on to Snoopy.
Jimmy: well, the biggest change with Snoopy is, of course, the fact that he is not an only puppy. He has all these siblings now. We had Spike in the seventies, but now we got Olaf and some more are coming along. The fantasy is taken over. But this fantasy has taken over for, a long, long, long time. I think the other thing though, I would say about Snoopy is that at the beginning of the strip, I think Charlie Brown developed into Schulz's avatar. And I think in the latter half of the strip, Snoopy is more and more. Yeah, that's, I guess what I'd have to say about Snoopy.
Harold: Yeah. In the mellowing and rounding out of these characters, Snoopy is genuinely rounded out visually, as Michael, you say he looks kind of like, the plush toys that were so popular in millions of households all over the world. And Snoopy has become this icon, unlike any other cartoonist icon. I mean, I can't think of another cartoon character that is just everywhere for so long, surviving to this day, you know, to this four years last strip. And Snoopy is, is a major cultural force.
Jimmy: I can't believe someone created Snoopy, even after doing all this. It's like, it seems like it's Snoopy's always existed.
Harold: Yeah. And in the mellowing part, I was mentioning friendship. This is something that has been developing over the last, really over the last 20 years. You know, he had 20 years where he was kind of on his own for the most part. And then this little bird comes into his life, and then all of a sudden you're seeing him as this, as a friend, as a paternal character, as a leader, you know, the Beagle scout. This is a side of Snoopy that we hadn't seen before. And again, it does seem like Snoopy has lived his life and had his experiences, and he is now. He's now found some things he didn't have before. And again, I'm happy for Snoopy because of that. And he's just an enjoyable, enjoyable character at this stage.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: Michael, yeah, this is a tricky one. So much for me. So much of Snoopy is tied in with the way he looks and, how much he's changed and constantly changing way more than any other character.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: Occasionally I'll come across a 60s strip and I'll go like, that dog is not the same dog. You could have that modern Snoopy and sixties Snoopy together in a strip, and they're clearly two different animals.
Jimmy: Yeah. And then go back even further and it's a third animal.
Harold: It's the Snoopy is dead controversy.
Michael: He seems to be, he does seem to be aging more than, than the rest. He's. It seems like he's feeling, of course, in dog years, I don't know how old he actually is.
Harold:, methuselah.
Michael: So, yeah, he's more complacent. Yeah. He's assuming adult roles and as kind of the leader. But I think the biggest change is he was angry. The Snoopy I remember was extremely angry that he was treated like a dog. And occasionally that comes up, but now it's more like he's not a dog anymore. I mean, he doesn't walk on four legs anymore. He walks on 2ft. He has hats. He. So he's a lawyer.
Jimmy: I just finished. do androids dream of electric sheep? That is the test to see if it's a human. Right. If they wear a hat.
Harold: See, I've been telling you guys, I've been needing that.
Michael: So he's become and his fantasies, which often were a little wild, you know, especially becoming other animals. And then, you know, a, pilot and a foreign legionnaire.
Harold: Yeah.
Michael: They sort of morphed into kind of more traditional role playing. Like, you know, the lawyer and the surgeon. Yeah. And the whole thing with Snoopy is Snoopy and Woodstock are a team. And I think that's what kept his character fresh is he had someone to play off of.
Harold: Michael, I was just thinking what you said. He was angry about being kind of the little insignificant character in the strip. And then what does Schulz do? He introduces an even little more character in Woodstock. And Snoopy now becomes the advocate for that little character.
Michael: Uh huh.
Harold: So it's like he's transferred his anger into being the thing that he wished had been for himself. Although he certainly doesn't pay much attention to the good things that Charlie Brown does for him. Like feed him.
Jimmy: Right. Yeah. Give him a home.
Michael: Okay. All right. So that's, those are the big four from.
Jimmy: Oh, let me just say the other big change, of course, is that the big four used to be in every strip.
Michael: Yeah.
Jimmy: And that is not the case.
Michael: Yeah. That was the rule, for many, many years that every single strip had at least one of those four characters. And with a very, very rare solo by Schroeder, who is the, fifth in this old guard. Yeah. So say something about Schroeder.
Jimmy: Schroeder continues with an immaculate consistency. Schroeder likes catching. Schroeder dislikes Lucy. And Schroeder enjoys Beethoven. That's what he's sticking with. I appreciate Schroder. He's got his thing down and he's not looking elsewhere.
Harold: Yep.
Michael: Yeah. There's not much you could say about him. he hasn't evolved at all.
Jimmy: At all. I admire that.
Michael: Yeah.
Harold: The bedrock of Peanuts.
Jimmy: That's right.
Michael: He's not like Shermie like. But you really don't know much outside of his likes and dislikes of a few things. You don't really know what his life is like at all. Never see him at school.
Harold: Do you know his last name?
Jimmy: No. We never find out. We don't even know Schroeder is his first name or his last name.
Michael: Okay. So we can move on. So, the next column is characters who are introduced in the sixties who are still around. And we'll start with Sally might have been introduced in the fifties.
Jimmy: in59, I think. But Sally has changed because she started as a baby, one of those characters like Schroeder and Lucy that started as babies and grew up. Sally is, I think she's just gotten stronger over the years. I think she's funny across the board, I think probably from pure laughs. I think I get in this era, more laughs from Sally than other characters, except maybe Marcie.
Harold: Yeah, Sally's, Sally's the holdout in the strip that's still railing against the world where she's taking it on. Peppermint Patty feels the brunt of it, but I think she's on the underside of it. Sally's often somehow on top of the things that she doesn't understand, and that's a lot of fun. I think it's a much needed part in the strip right now, given where the other characters are.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: I would think, you know, we each pick strips to discuss. I haven't counted, but I would guess that Sally strips, would be my highest percentage.
Harold: Yeah, yeah.
Michael: She, I think she's, she's the funniest. She's, you know, the character you can identify with, because being the kid who doesn't know anything and nobody tells anything to, you know, just kind of makes up her own rules about the universe. Yeah. And I think she's getting stronger, even though she was a good character from the beginning. I think, if he had to just go with one character, like, okay, schulz, you only get one character. What do you pick? He wouldn't pick Sally, but I would. I think it's Sally's trip could really go.
Harold: yeah, a Sally strip could stand on its own against all the other syndicated strips at that time. I totally see that.
Jimmy: All right, let me, I want to, I want to throw a curveball in here, because we were playing this. Michael and I used to do this thing. We're like, okay, they're selling off the Beatles catalog. You can buy one song. What would you buy? And mine was, always Every Little Thing. But anyway, because I think maybe that would be the one I could afford in this theory.
Michael: I pick, Hey, Bbulldog. But it's got a resurgence.
Jimmy: It does have a resurgence. So my question is, as cartoonists we're going to be able to buy one character from Peanuts, not one of the main four.
Harold: Who would you buy?
Michael: I'd buy Sally.
Jimmy: Sally. Harold?
Harold: Woodstock.
Jimmy: Woodstock. Peppermint Patty.
Michael: Okay. Speaking of Peppermint Patty, she's next on the list.
Jimmy: Peppermint Patty arrived fully formed, I felt, in 1965 or whatever. And she, we find new stuff out about her, like her relationship with her dad, her living situation. You know, she doesn't have a mom and stuff like that. but she remains pretty much the character we first met. But having said that, she is a radical character. She is from the future when she arrives in 1965. One of my favorite pieces of art in the world is the book Harriet the Spy by, Louise Fitzhugh. And it came out in 1964. And, I mean, this is the world we were living in. Well, people were living in them compared to now. Harriet, wore sneakers and jeans and, like, this was radical stuff, you know, and it's only a few months later, and Peppermint Patty's there in her shorts and flip flops and, she's a great modern character. I think the modern female protagonist of comics starts there even more so than Lucy.
Harold: That's interesting. It's amazing that she's been with us now for 25 years. It doesn't feel like that, but, yeah, I agree. And it seems like she's taken on some of those failure, borderline failure aspects of Charlie Brown. She's now the one who's just skating on the edge of failure. it's a different approach, but failure is, if he's going to do a strip on failure 80% of the times, he's now going to Peppermint Patty.
Jimmy: Yeah, yeah. And I, the other thing I love about their relationship with Peppermint Patty and Charlie Brown are their little philosophical moments under the tree. That's something that, that came about after she had been in the strip for a few years, but it shows them as a really good friend couple. I can picture them being friends for life.
Harold: Yeah.
Jimmy: How about you, Michael?
Michael: I don't know why, but, the character does not appeal to me that much. Part of it is the fact that there aren't a lot of female characters, and she's probably the most popular, and a lot of the gags are, it sounds like she's just dumb. I mean, in particular, you know, not realizing she's going to dog training school.
Jimmy: Yeah. I will say, though, that's one of the worst. I mean, that, yeah, that's basically, she's.
Michael: Clearly has a learning disability, which. So it makes her a modern character.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: which you could probably do a lot with. But the school strips where, you know, she's. She never gets the answer right, and she guesses and makes weird remarks to the teacher. I don't find those particularly interesting. You know, the sitting under the tree strips are better, but they don't happen that all that often. She's basically sitting there in class doing dumb things.
Harold: Yeah, well, she seems like the character that she'll dumps on the most for the anxieties and the failure. And it doesn't always add up because is, in some ways, she's incredibly smart. We know that as well. You know, she obviously knows strategy, baseball. You know, she's a fantastic manager of her own team. She's got so much going in one category, and then it's like it almost feels artificially. How can you always get a d minus? I think more about who the heck is it her teacher than who is she? You know? And then we know that she doesn't get sleep. You know, we know all these things that kind of point in this direction. But, yeah, I will say, Michael, I don't feel like, given what I know about her character, it doesn't quite jive with me. I have trouble putting Peppermint Patty together when I see how she interacts generally outside of the classroom with other people, and then how she's just this abysmal failure in school.
Michael: Yeah. It's frustrating because, you know, at some point, somebody would take this kid under their wing and say, look, you know, you've got to learn this stuff, or you're going to end up, you know, working as a waitress for the rest of your life.
Jimmy: Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Michael: Nope, nope. A noble profession.
Harold: Right? And she's got Marcie, who is a good student, and yet, you know, Marcy's doing some work with her, and I do appreciate that. I think that makes. That softens the edge of Peppermint Patty's failure, because there is someone there who's alongside her.
Jimmy: Here's what I will say here. I will solve this for you guys.
Harold: Thank you.
Jimmy: Peppermint Patty does not give a crap about school. That's why she gets d minuses. She does not think about it. She's not paying attention. She's asleep in class all the time.
Harold: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jimmy: You know, I mean, she does not care. And I think, we have to leave the dog thing aside because that.
Michael: Was just over the edge.
Jimmy: Ridiculous.
Harold: Yeah. So I think what you're saying Jimmy makes a lot of sense. Yeah. It's just not important to her.
Jimmy: No.
Harold: And she doesn't prioritize it, and she doesn't set her life up so that she will succeed there.
Jimmy: Right.
Michael: Okay, let's move on to Marcie.
Jimmy: I love Marcie. I think Marcie's brilliant. I've always liked Marcie, but I love Marcie on this read through. I love that Marcie is, unknowable in some way. And I know I love that she's placid in so much of the time, but then she'll just burst out and become violent, and sometimes she'll be violent just for the lols, like her and Peppermint Patty. And I love their relationship. you know, I love Marcie, and I think it's just a great character design. I thought that was such a great character design that I stole it for Pajama Man. Oh. And if anyone's interested, the next Tanner Rocks will already be out by the time you guys read this, but you'll see my little Eudora tribute.
Harold: Oh, excellent. Look forward to that.
Michael: So, Marcie. We're talking Marcie here.
Harold: Yep. So, Marcie is, to me, the character who continues to surprise. And I appreciate that in a strip that's 40 years old, she, has these layers to her, sometimes disturbing layers that Schulz continues to reveal. And I do like that Peppermint Patty has Marcie and that Marcie plays, usually plays this kind of supportive character to Peppermint Patty, but still is just a very, very strong character in and of herself. And I'm just thinking, in life, when you look at characters in stories, usually it's those a type personalities or whatever, that they're the ones that get a lot of the focus in literature. And Marcie is this fascinating supporting character who Schulz gives this incredibly rich life to that even if she chooses to be that in the friendship role, it's not because she's lesser. It's because that's just her personality, and she's still this incredibly rich human being. And there are a lot of people in life who are like Marcie. And I very much appreciate that there's a character in literature, in comics, that represents those roles that you play in life. that's an honorable role to play, to be the support to a friend. Like a peppermint patty.
Jimmy: Yep.
Liz: I just have to jump in here and say that she is not being a lesser character when she's saying things like, Charles, don't nibble on my ear. I can't hear.
Harold: Right?
Jimmy: Yeah. So brilliant. That sequence is great.
Harold: I love that script.
Michael: Yeah. I think she's coming into the nineties. I think she's definitely one of the strongest characters. And I just thought a really good team up, which we, I don't think we've ever seen, would be Sally and Marcie.
Jimmy: I agree one, hundred percent.
Michael: Maybe, like, Marcie is a babysitter or something. If I was doing the Sally strip, Marcie would be her babysitter.
Harold: That sounds pretty cool.
Jimmy: Brilliant.
Harold: Some no nonsense stuff going on, I'm guessing.
Jimmy: That's right.
Michael: They're also unpredictable. Anything can come out of their mouths at any time. Okay. and now let's moving on to the most complicated, complex character in modern American literature. Woodstock.
Jimmy: Woodstock is the greatest comic strip character design of all time. I really think so. There, only one person in the world could have ever done that. There's nothing to him. He takes up one 100th of a panel, and all the emotion of a complete being is in him. I don't know how he does it. And, you know, Woodstock, there's not much to say about him as a character. I don't think, you know, in terms of, like, the deep inner psyche of Woodstock. But, boy, is it a funny character. It works great with Snoopy. And it's next to impossible to think that you could take a character like Snoopy that at this point was already worldwide iconic, and add a second banana to him and have it work. Not only have it work, but have it become something that everyone in the world also knows. It's impossible to imagine. I love Woodstock.
Harold: Yeah. This is Schulz leaning into his strengths as an artist. Like you said, as a cartoonist, I have a little bookmark that I was given. It's two inches wide, and it's got four panels going down the bookmark, and there's a ton of margin around that. So it's probably, like, one inch panels about. It's Snoopy on his doghouse. It reads so clearly and cleanly, and I'm like, that is an artist who knows how to boil down to the essence. And Woodstock, like you said, is the ultimate boiling down to the essence of a character with so few strokes and being full of life, full of character. Schulz is one of the greatest who's ever done that. And so Woodstock represents that. I also think that Woodstock represents the little guy, the underdog. Schultz introduces these characters that are much more complex. They're conflicted, and then you're dealing with characters who are put upon just because of who they are. He's a little bird. He's pretty helpless, but he has a very life himself. And he's a little mysterious in his own way. Because we have to interpret him through Snoopy. So there's a lot going on with this little character. And I love what's to Woodstock brings out in Snoopy.
Michael: Yeah. Jimmy mentioned that, he brought me around to appreciate Woodstock. I was just. Because I hadn't read Peanuts after the seventies, I thought he was just kind of an icon of cuteness that everybody was putting posters up and talking about. I didn't realize how much could be coming out of that little creature. and yeah, the genius move was the fact that all you do see is slash marks. First thoughts. Imagine if he had just decided, okay, he's going to be like Snoopy. And it'll be thought balloons. I mean, you can't even conceive of that.
Jimmy: No, you can't.
Harold: Except for the letters that he would write Snoopy, which I thought were absolutely delightful. Where he's got a very specific, direct voice that we get to hear. I loved that that was. And I think he could have gone in that direction. And Woodstock would have still been a rich character. Different character.
Jimmy: Yeah, it would have been very different. I mean, the graphic thought of those check marks as his has his speech. I just could never think of that ever. And it's so great.
Harold: Or to stick with it.
Jimmy: Stick with it.
Michael: Yeah. And the fact that you could. His personality comes out in those little slash marks. you know, sometimes you could tell he's just like, talking too much or he's angry just from like, the look of those marks. Yeah, it's great. I have no problem with Woodstock. I approve.
Jimmy: All right. Woodstock is Cohen approved.
Michael: All right, we're in our last column. let's just do a quick one or two sentences for each of these guys.
Jimmy: Let's do it.
Michael: This is seventies to nineties. These are the, the newest batch. Almost none of them are getting much play at this point. So they come up a couple times a year and that's it. Okay, Franklin.
Jimmy: Solid. rock steady. Wish he hung out with Charlie Brown more.
Michael: Okay.
Harold: I totally agree. Yep. he brings out the best in Charlie Brown. There's a lot to Franklin. Kind of the philosophical side of Linus is occasionally we get to see in Franklin. And I appreciate that because I miss that aspect of Schulz in the strip.
Michael: I think it's a missed opportunity. I think it was such a big deal to introduce, an African American character. And I think Schulz was afraid that any sharp personality traits could be construed wrongly.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Michael: And so it's, it's almost like a Shermie character, except not quite as broad. Shermie has many, many facets. Franklin. Yeah, I mean, he's a foil for Charlie Brown in a way, to sit and talk about grandparents and things like that. So I'm thinking in the nineties, it'll probably grow to be more of a full, rounded character. But up to this point he's in a couple of strips and that's it.
Jimmy: Yeah.
Harold: And if I could hang out with any one character in real life from the Peanuts cast, it would be Franklin. Just I've seen the, seen enough little hints of who he is and what's, what's behind him. I want to get to know him.
Jimmy: And plus, you'd have a much more relaxing, probably safe day.
Harold: Exactly right. Everyone else is going to bring all those neuroses.
Michael: All right, moving on. Rerun.
Jimmy: Best is yet to come.
Harold: Perplexing. Up to this point.
Michael: Missed opportunity. Up to this point. Yeah. I mean, endless possibility. I mean, because the, Linus is a baby stuff was so great that there ample opportunity to rerun all that stuff and it hasn't happened yet. We'll see what happens. Okay. Lydia.
Jimmy: I love Lydia. Oh, Lydia.
Harold: I do too. Already talked about her, so.
Jimmy: Yeah, I did too. She's great.
Michael: Okay. I would say this is the only character introduced in the eighties that I wish would become a main cast member. And it doesn't look like it's happening because again, she's only showing up four or five times a year. But I could see her joining the main cast at some point as a--
Jimmy: Totally. Yeah.
Michael: All right. Spike.
Jimmy: I like Spike. I've grown to like Spike over this reread. I like the existentialism. I like, what that listener said about him kind of being like a, Snoopy. If Snoopy didn't have Charlie Brown in the gang, I thought that was pretty interesting. if I was going to, like, rewrite history, I'd go, maybe it'd be better if Snoopy was all by himself. But in the moment, I like Spike and, I'm okay with them.
Harold: Yeah. I appreciate what people like in Spike. For me personally, I don't get a lot out of the strips. They're, they're. I don't know why, but, yeah, he's, he's a bit of, a, bit of a downer to me when I read the strips. And occasionally I. He's really delightful. But for the most part, it's just kind of this stoic. The strip is already mellowed out so much that to have that stoic, spike in the mix, it's, like, a little too much, maybe of a good thing.
Michael: All righty. Spike. Yeah. When I see it's a Spike strip, I am not excited. It's a limited number. I mean, you can't do too much when you're out in the desert and.
Jimmy: Your only friend is a cactus.
Michael: Yeah. So, yeah, it's gonna be like another replay of the cactus jokes. Okay. now, the most merchandised of all the characters, Olaf.
Jimmy: greatest character of all time, he's the goat. I was looking really at that character design that's as a wild character design. I think he succeeded in making a pretty ugly dog, but I love him.
Harold: Yeah. My word for Olaf is disturbing.
Jimmy: Yes, he is disturbing.
Michael: Yeah. I'm appreciating him just because I know Jimmy loves his character so much. yeah, we'll see. I don't know if he's going to be sticking around.
Jimmy: He's a little bit. Not much.
Michael: Other brothers, siblings coming along, not looking forward to those, but, yeah, Olaf's. It's good for a chuckle.
Jimmy: That I think I'm gonna hurt myself strip. Maybe the hardest I ever laughed at Peanuts. and I don't. I can't even fully say why. I think it does have to do with what Harold said.
Jimmy: He throws himself off Snoopy's doghouse with the least possible effort. so anyway, that's all.
Michael: That it wraps it, up. I mean, pigpen showed up once or twice, but nothing worth talking about.
Jimmy: He remains dirty.
Michael: Yeah. All right, that's it.
Jimmy: That is it, guys. We came to the end of another season. I am so happy about that. We're going to be starting up the 1990s soon, so I hope you guys all stick around for that. And, if you want to get in touch with us, if you want to want to talk or tell us about your favorite characters in the eighties, you can write us at unpackingpeanuts@gmail.com. you can also follow us on social media. We're unpackpeanuts on Instagram and Threads and unpackingpeanuts on Facebook, bluesky, and YouTube. And we would always love to hear from you. Cause, remember, when I don't hear, I worry.
That's it, though. We wrapped up another season. incredible. More to come soon, guys. Thanks for hanging out. Thanks for being a part of this. And, from Michael, Harold, and Liz this is Jimmy saying subscribe to the Guardian and be of good cheer.
Michael: Yes, subscribe to the Guardian.
[Laughter]
Liz: Unpacking Peanuts is copyright Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen and Harold Buchholz produced and edited by Liz Sumner Music by Michael Cohen additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark for more from the show, follow unpacked Peanuts on Instagram and threads unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue sky, and YouTube. For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpanuts.com. have a wonderful day and thanks for listening.
Harold: And just one other thing.